Hi, new to the sight as you can see... i have looked all over the web for 3 days. about 10 hours total... and here i am... i have to gsp's and a turbo snail left... my figure 8's tail turned red and really swollan, he swam funny and died in a short period of time.. he was a week old to me at this point.. i went to the lfs and there whole fish section was quarentiened, and for the record i had 3 frozen fish with me that died puffer included. they said they had an out break and didnt know what it was and lost 80% of there fish.. (iwont be back there) they gave me some maracyn to try to save the rest..
on day 5 of the treatment.. heres what there still doing... bellys truning black then white then black then white. and yes i did search the forum and realize this may be nothing... but there are breathing like i do after chasing the dog around the yard for an hour... all the time! bouncing off the glass. twitchin, rubbing rocks and substrate and eating very intermitantly.... they are fat at times and skinny at others... water temp is 78 to 82 varying on time of day if i am home and if i kick the fans on.. where in the middle of a bad heat wave and it cools off at night dramaticaly.... trying to maintain 81 while there sick... i am supposed to administer second 5 day dose of maracyn tomarow dont know if i should.... SG is 1.014 25% a week changes but every other day since they are sick. and all levels are fine except hardness but hey is brackish i dont know if i can control that... or should. i would like an answer to that question as well... due to my loose i have ordered more fish from AAG.com and i am going to quarentien but want to save my gsp's me and the wife love them... any idea's what it is... and what to do? and if i am doing somthing wrong please let me know.. and yes i have a turbo snail living in 1.015 very very happily.. although he really cant clean much by him self we love him the same... we call him turbo diesel.. everyone told me i couldnt acclimate him in to a salinity that low but hes been around for quite some time now and moves all over and seems very happy... any way please help... PETCO though i was kidding when i told them they owe me for the other fish they killed with there out break they new they had and they also comped my medicine... they did loose all my buisness.. it was great when the manager said who sold ya the F8, and i said george.. the manager said hes fired, he new for 2 days not to sell any puffers or cichlids... nice huh? gave me a dieing fish and killed my others.. love to catch him at the bar... any way.. please help us.. i dont want to flush another wonderful fishhhhh down the drain..
Jayson&Brittany
huffin and puffing...
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Pyratt
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:01 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Madison WI
got your PM.
Try to get pictures of the puffers posted. If you know someone who has a digital camera, borrow it, then post the pictures on a free website like Photobucket.
A lot can be said. Most people are going to have lots of tips on the long term set up of the tank. Usually we aren't as worried about the survivability of snails and 'lesser inverts' but...
(going to re-read and then post specific things)
-Pete
Try to get pictures of the puffers posted. If you know someone who has a digital camera, borrow it, then post the pictures on a free website like Photobucket.
A lot can be said. Most people are going to have lots of tips on the long term set up of the tank. Usually we aren't as worried about the survivability of snails and 'lesser inverts' but...
(going to re-read and then post specific things)
-Pete
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
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Could you please post:
Tank size?
Fish size?
How many puffers?
Exact results of your water tests: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH?
How long have you had them now?
How were they acclimated to that SG?
Tank size?
Fish size?
How many puffers?
Exact results of your water tests: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH?
How long have you had them now?
How were they acclimated to that SG?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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puff_puff_pass
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:50 pm
40 gal, 2 gsp, 1 turbo snail, gsp's are an inch? with out actually messuring them.. ph is 7.8 - nitrate 0 - nitrite 0 - askalinity is ruffly 225 - tank up and running for 4 months.. gsp's are about ehhh month and a week? give or take a few days.... trying to remember what else you asked... very tired and stressed out for days over this... as far as pictures go.. i can take one right now.. can i put it in a post? with out uploading.. i am not to computer litereate.. fish have been sick for 6 days maybe 1 more.. i work full time and days just run together any more.. 
ill be here for a while so ask me what ever you want to know... thanks for all your help..
ill be here for a while so ask me what ever you want to know... thanks for all your help..-
puff_puff_pass
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:50 pm
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Pyratt
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:01 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Madison WI
As I alluded, it's much easier (especially without photos) to give you general advice for your tank(s) in the long-term... I'm not sure if your current condition is bacteria or parasite or what...
However here are the things that everyone on the forum will want to say or ask:
-Size of tank
-incompatibility issues w/ different fish species
-salinity issues
GSPs can grow to 6" (excluding the tail fin) and should be kept in full SW when they get larger. Your current salinity should not be the reason for their sickness, however, as 1.014 should be totally acceptable for GSPs. It is best to keep them in a tank with only other GSPs. Commonly people will keep two in a 55gallon tank and even then they often upgrade when the fish get fully grown.
F8's stay considerably smaller and are best kept for life in 1.005 (give or take).
It is not recommended to keep F8's and GSPs together. It may be 'ok' in the short-term when the fish are similar sized and depending on the individual personalities of the fish, but salinity differences and aggression (and space in the tank) require us to keep them apart.
People will also say "please don't order new fish until you heal this tank, unless you have extra tanks..." They will also tell you that you should have quarantined.
Do realize though, that we all aren't perfect, and even tho I know a lot of these things I may try to skip or skimp on the quarantine time myself... (although my personal sin is in small tank size.. doing the best I can for now...). You are a reminder to us all of the risks we run when we don't QT.
Your water change regiment sounds good (when sick we do a ton of water changes, however sometimes it's important to leave water a few days while medicating as per instructions.. I don't know the specifics of Maracyn). It would appear the maracyn is failing to treat them and thus it wasn't a gram-positive-type bacterial infection.
i will post more
-Pete
However here are the things that everyone on the forum will want to say or ask:
-Size of tank
-incompatibility issues w/ different fish species
-salinity issues
GSPs can grow to 6" (excluding the tail fin) and should be kept in full SW when they get larger. Your current salinity should not be the reason for their sickness, however, as 1.014 should be totally acceptable for GSPs. It is best to keep them in a tank with only other GSPs. Commonly people will keep two in a 55gallon tank and even then they often upgrade when the fish get fully grown.
F8's stay considerably smaller and are best kept for life in 1.005 (give or take).
It is not recommended to keep F8's and GSPs together. It may be 'ok' in the short-term when the fish are similar sized and depending on the individual personalities of the fish, but salinity differences and aggression (and space in the tank) require us to keep them apart.
People will also say "please don't order new fish until you heal this tank, unless you have extra tanks..." They will also tell you that you should have quarantined.
Do realize though, that we all aren't perfect, and even tho I know a lot of these things I may try to skip or skimp on the quarantine time myself... (although my personal sin is in small tank size.. doing the best I can for now...). You are a reminder to us all of the risks we run when we don't QT.
Your water change regiment sounds good (when sick we do a ton of water changes, however sometimes it's important to leave water a few days while medicating as per instructions.. I don't know the specifics of Maracyn). It would appear the maracyn is failing to treat them and thus it wasn't a gram-positive-type bacterial infection.
i will post more
-Pete
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puff_puff_pass
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:50 pm
yes i was unaware of the quarentine factor... and somthing i left out actually 2 things... is the order is not for this tank nor are the gsp's... i am curently cycling a 125gal. which resides next to the 40... if you can picture.. the 40 is on a tall stand that is 4 feet high... then another stand extends out to the right... holding the 125 and making the 2 level.. so its an L of oak and an L of glass making a rectangle.. but i am letting that cycle with the snails and shrimps i purchased for a few weeks before moving the gsp's in and i have a 20 gallon keeping 2 bumble bee gobys happy and 4 glass ells.. all very small and are being aclimated over the next 2 weeks to the SG of 1.014 but i deffenatly should not have dropped the f8 in unquarentiened and no after reading heavily for the last 3 or 4 days not at all! but we live we learn and try not to kill in the process... thanks for your help.. and again can i just post a picture of the puffers in the posts? of do i have to put a webaddress...?
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Pyratt
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:01 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Madison WI
The dark/light color change... the puffers are clearly severely stressed. Sickness could cause stress, as could increasing the salinity too fast or adding salt improperly (have it totally dissolved in water and then add the new water) or the fish moving around (shipping->LFS->your tank) or the temperature changing too much... or a ton of reasons.
A four degree daily temperature sway is pretty severe. I do understand it's a summer heatwave. Even though 78 is far more ideal than 82, it is considered far more healthy for the fish to be kept at a relatively stable 82 than for the fish to be subject to temperature changes. You can leave a fan to blow the air on the top of the tank for evaporative cooling (trying to keep a more stable lower temp, although this is more in theory, I've never done it). Or you could actually up the heater on the tank and try to set it so you're able to get the tank to stay at a stable temperature.. as I mentioned this is easier during the summer if you set it to a higher temp.
Do hold off on ordering them fish until we all can figure out what the current problems are.
-Pyratt Pete
A four degree daily temperature sway is pretty severe. I do understand it's a summer heatwave. Even though 78 is far more ideal than 82, it is considered far more healthy for the fish to be kept at a relatively stable 82 than for the fish to be subject to temperature changes. You can leave a fan to blow the air on the top of the tank for evaporative cooling (trying to keep a more stable lower temp, although this is more in theory, I've never done it). Or you could actually up the heater on the tank and try to set it so you're able to get the tank to stay at a stable temperature.. as I mentioned this is easier during the summer if you set it to a higher temp.
Do hold off on ordering them fish until we all can figure out what the current problems are.
-Pyratt Pete
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Pyratt
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:01 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Madison WI
about posting pics:
I believe you have to upload the pictures onto the internet and then give us the web address.
http://www.photobucket.com
That's what I use- it's free and simple.
The people whose pictures appear in the body of their forum posts.. their pictures aren't directly uploaded to the forum like you're hoping, but rather they are linked to the other site where they are hosted (like photobucket). If you right click on the photos and go to properties, you can see the URL where the photo really resides- it's just being conveniently linked for us to see.
It's most simple and effective for you to just upload pictures to photobucket and then copy/paste where the pictures are and we can navigate there (f you can't figure out how to do the more complicated linking of the photo as mentioned above - hit the [Img] box and then copy/paste the URL of the photo and then hit the [Img] box again... but it's kinda tricky sometimes...)
-Pete
I believe you have to upload the pictures onto the internet and then give us the web address.
http://www.photobucket.com
That's what I use- it's free and simple.
The people whose pictures appear in the body of their forum posts.. their pictures aren't directly uploaded to the forum like you're hoping, but rather they are linked to the other site where they are hosted (like photobucket). If you right click on the photos and go to properties, you can see the URL where the photo really resides- it's just being conveniently linked for us to see.
It's most simple and effective for you to just upload pictures to photobucket and then copy/paste where the pictures are and we can navigate there (f you can't figure out how to do the more complicated linking of the photo as mentioned above - hit the [Img] box and then copy/paste the URL of the photo and then hit the [Img] box again... but it's kinda tricky sometimes...)
-Pete
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puff_puff_pass
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:50 pm
too late order shipped but they wont be with the puffers there going right in the 125 to help get things working. there just snails and shrimps... the weirdest part of this is... it happened when the other fish died... like not while they were sick but the day they died.. and it appears systamatically the darkness changes when the light is on.... and when there feed.. but the heavy breathing is what worries me and the scratching.. and the sticking there mouths out of the water and swimming in circles.... as far as the temp goes.. its cooling off over 25 degrees up here at night.. by the time i wake up its at 78 and i was told while there sick keep the temp up... of i would leave it at 78.. then it warms up while im at work to almost 82 and i put the fan on get it to 80 by the time i get to bed its cools off outside i shut the fan off then its 78 at 6 am when i get up!!!! i cant win.... the noon sun beats on the flat black roof of the house and no ones here to turn the fan on but if i put it on at 7 am before i leave by 10 or 11 the tanks down to 76! cant win unless i quite my job... that wont work.. hehe..i think i am going to leave the light on 24/7 cut out the medicine cause its not working any way... and i am starting to think they might miss there friends.. cause no one can figure this out.. not even my life long vet i have for my baby (malamute/wolf mix) named shayla! who loves to lick the fish tank glass! wainting for a brave fis to jump out......
i greatly appreciate you helping me and responding to my PM quickly.. if you dont mind while you ponder this problem some more i would like to bounch somthing off of you..i have stagered thin flat long shale slate type rocks.. with an inch to 4 inch space making 20 or so layers.. making tons of caves and caverns up the back of the tank... lots of hiding places... before i put the fishies in the big tank should i "GLUE" them together so i dont hae an avalanch!!!! and if so what glue do i use????
i greatly appreciate you helping me and responding to my PM quickly.. if you dont mind while you ponder this problem some more i would like to bounch somthing off of you..i have stagered thin flat long shale slate type rocks.. with an inch to 4 inch space making 20 or so layers.. making tons of caves and caverns up the back of the tank... lots of hiding places... before i put the fishies in the big tank should i "GLUE" them together so i dont hae an avalanch!!!! and if so what glue do i use????
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Pyratt
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:01 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Madison WI
Not sure about construction of the rock/shale arches and stuff. I know it's a common thing to do. Obviously we both realize the glue selection is critical... I'm no expert as to which....
What I was suggesting about the temperature: set the tank heater to 80 or 82 degrees. That way maybe the tank won't swing from 78-82. It's better for the tank to be 82 and hold steady than to swing back and forth.
What I was suggesting about the temperature: set the tank heater to 80 or 82 degrees. That way maybe the tank won't swing from 78-82. It's better for the tank to be 82 and hold steady than to swing back and forth.
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puff_puff_pass
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:50 pm
as long as temp in the house swings when i am not home all the heater is going to do is make it swing to 84 i would think. were taking hot and making hotter... but i actually need to do is get it to 80 before i go to bed then kick the heater on to keep it there then kick it off before work then itll still hit 82 and i can get the fan on get it to 80 and that wont be too bad actually im gettin off my buttocks going to turn it on right now.... sorry for the typo's im exhausted...
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puff_puff_pass
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:50 pm
-
Pyratt
- Dwarf Puffer
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:01 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): USA
- Location: Madison WI
Lighting - in general it's better for the lights to be Off rather than On. Consider leaving them 24/7 off rather than 24/7 on.
As to the fish circling the top of the water, gasping: they are suffocating or something. I'd imagine 25% daily waterchanges would help... Perhaps get an airpump+bubble stone... but people have proved that it's the agitation to the surface of the tankwater that causes it to be better aerated, not air diffusing from the bubbles themselves into the tankwater. As this is the case, usually in smaller tanks some hang-on-back filtration causes enough agitation for suffocation to not be an issue.
Is anyone else aware of things that could cause fish to gasp at the surface?
Oh - another tip on the waterchanges: I use 5gallon water jugs and add the fresh water and then add the dechlorinator and the Instant Ocean salt. I seal the jug and shake it a bunch (the salt should be dissolved when you add it to the aquarium) and then unseal it. Most people recommend to leave water open and out for 24 hours after this before adding it to their tanks, I sometimes skip this step depending on how bad I want to change the water right away.
Hope that helps
As to the fish circling the top of the water, gasping: they are suffocating or something. I'd imagine 25% daily waterchanges would help... Perhaps get an airpump+bubble stone... but people have proved that it's the agitation to the surface of the tankwater that causes it to be better aerated, not air diffusing from the bubbles themselves into the tankwater. As this is the case, usually in smaller tanks some hang-on-back filtration causes enough agitation for suffocation to not be an issue.
Is anyone else aware of things that could cause fish to gasp at the surface?
Oh - another tip on the waterchanges: I use 5gallon water jugs and add the fresh water and then add the dechlorinator and the Instant Ocean salt. I seal the jug and shake it a bunch (the salt should be dissolved when you add it to the aquarium) and then unseal it. Most people recommend to leave water open and out for 24 hours after this before adding it to their tanks, I sometimes skip this step depending on how bad I want to change the water right away.
Hope that helps