Maybe Cause for Concern (GSP-RIP)

[bhallg2k]

I originally posted this (http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... php?t=4705) because I had a few questions. Now maybe I'm paranoid because of inexperience with the species, but I'm a little concerned.

I just got the GSP. Introduced it into my 29 G tank today (Friday) at about 11 AM. I did so with one ounce of Bio-Spira. The tank had been set up about two weeks ago with the usual enzymes; Stress Zyme, I believe is the name.

Water test last night (Thursday) was: ph 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0-5, temperature 78.

Water test 15 minutes ago: ph 7.8, ammonia .25, nitrites .25, nitrates 5-10, temperature 81 (I raised the temp for the fish).

The tank was started as FW and the fish was kept in FW at the store, but I plan on beginning to make them brackish tomorrow.

At any rate, I originally thought that I had seen the fish's eyes "glow" green in the light, and was told that this is ok, but after looking more closely, the pupils seem to "glow" a bluish color that's kinda cloudy. I took pictures, but with a camera phone so they aren't that great. The fish also didn't seem to want to cooperate.

His belly is also almost totally black. I observed that when the tank is dark, he curls his tail and just kind of floats; sometimes at the bottom, sometimes at the top. When lit, he swims up and down the side of the tank wall. I haven't tried feeding him yet save for the two snails I put in with him. But I've got some bloodworms in the freezer. I was going to wait until tomorrow when maybe he's more used to his new home. I didn't want to risk having uneaten bloodworms floating in the tank.

What, if anything, is wrong? Or am I just being totally paranoid?


Underside view.


Side view. You can almost make out the bluish tint to his eye. Both eyes are the same.

[Boxermom]

Swimming up and down the glass is a sign of boredom, usually meaning there isn't enough decor. They need LOTS of plants/decor to break up their line of sight. They get bored easily.

They curl their tails all the time. That's normal. Sometimes they use it as a rudder, sometimes the just hover with it curled around their body. Normal puffer behavior.

Are you using any sort of declorinator? Did you use the entire package of Biospira? Was it kept refrigerated before you used it?

Its normal for their eyes to have a blue glow or sparkle to them. Unless the "covering" of the eye is cloudy, I wouldn't worry. Its hard to tell from the pictures but it looks pretty normal from what I can tell, IMO.

When raising the salinity, raise it no more than .002 per week or you will kill the beneficial bacteria and kick it into a cycle. Hopefully you have invested in a hydrometer or, better yet, a refractometer, to measure it.

[bhallg2k]

Yes, I dechlorinated the water when I first set up the tank. Stress Coat, I believe. And I used the entire package of Bio Spira. It had just come out of the fish shop's fridge.

I don't see any sort of cloudiness to the eyes, except when they seem to "glow" from direct light. In other words, when the tank is darker, the pupils are totally black.

Thanks for the tip on the decorations. There are quite a few things in the tank, but perhaps more would be good.

And I do have a hydrometer for help in raising the salinity.

Hopefully, I'm just being paranoid about all of this.

[Phaedrus]

I'd hold off on raising the salinity for a few days to let the bio-spira establish otherwise you may disturb the cycle with the increase in salinity. You should also refrain from doing any water changes for the next 48 hours for the same reason. After this period 50% weekly changes are recommended.

You'll know the cycle is complete when you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and detectable nitrates. Your current levels are normal after using bio-spira for the first time.

Stress Coat is ok, but many prefere Prime as their dechlorinator. It can also come in handy in an emergency as it can detoxify ammonia and nitrites if used in high dosages.

Your puffer looks alright. A little thin and distressed, but alright. His behaviour isn't that abnormal for a fish just added to a new home. Take it slow, try not to disturb him too much at first and let him settle in.

Try and feed a little bit tomorrow. If he doesn;t take anything, wait a day and try again. He'll eventually be hungry enough. I find frozen krill soaked in garlic guard is pretty tempting if the bloodworms don't work at first. (ie, if he's a picky eater) He looks pretty skinny though, so he should have an appetite once he settles down.

If he continues to stay very skinny even shortly after a feeding, internal parasites could very well be to blame, but that remains to be seen.

[Pufferpunk]

When did you add the B-S? Did you add it to the filter immediately before the fish? Is 1oz enough for 29g?

[Phaedrus]

I just got the GSP. Introduced it into my 29 G tank today (Friday) at about 11 AM. I did so with one ounce of Bio-Spira.

Sounds like the gsp and bio-spira were added at the same time today... Could be wrong.

And according to the bio-spira website, 1oz is enough for 30g.

[Pufferpunk]

OK, just checking... really tired... going to bed now...

[YBeNormal]

While dark bellies can be a sign of stress or illness, some GSPs seem to have dark bellies for no apparent reason. My largest GSP had a dark belly most of the time when s/he was small while the belly on the smaller GSP was always snow white. They are now 4+ and 5+ inches and it's the other way around. The smaller GSP almost always has a dark belly.

I've treated for parasites and they are in a well-decorated 75g tank with good water parameters, eating and acting fine and growing rapidly, so I've decided that this is just a trait of the smaller GSP and not to worry about it. The odd thing is that the belly on the smaller GSP will often turn white when s/he is spooked and at night when the lights are off.

[bhallg2k]

Well, there was cause for some concern. My puffer died overnight.

The Bio-Spira was added at the same time as the fish, and one ounce is supposed to work for 30 G. Maybe more would've been better, as it's said you can't overdose Bio Spira.

I haven't tested the water yet today. I'm not so sure how reliable the measurements would be anyway. I have no idea how long the fish was dead and releasing ammonia in the tank.

I found the fish slightly "bloated," laying on his side at the bottom of the tank. His left eye had turned white and red around the edges.

I also noticed that the tank water has gone from being crystal clear to slightly cloudy.



So aside from taking the fish back, what do I do now? I don't want to replace him yet until I know what's going on either in the tank or with the fish.

[YBeNormal]

Sorry to hear about the loss.

At the very least, test your water immediately to see if ammonia or nitrites are present. If so, it could be that the BIO-Spira was not fresh or it could have been a spike caused by the death of your fish. Hard to say at this point. Either way, the levels should drop within 24 hours if the tank is actually cycled. That would be a good sign. If ammonia/nitrites are present and the levels do not drop, your tank is not cycled.

[Phaedrus]

Sorry to hear about the little guy.

The puffers available from the LFS are not always the healthiest specimens. In fact, they are usually in very bad shape to begin with, so don't take this as hit to your abilities. As far as I can tell you've done a good job of preparing the tank for him, and you've used bio-spira, which is commendable.

Was the bio-spira fresh? As in, used before the "best before" date? It may have been improperly handled on it's way to the store and allowed to warm up. It's hard to say with a temperature sensitive thing like bio-spira.

If your tank parameters do stabilize and the cycle has completed, and If you wait more than a day or so to get another fish, you'll want to add some source of ammonia to the tank, such as fish food or pure ammonia to keep the bacteria fed.

[SkeptikaL]

Yea, sorry about your loss but don't let it discourage you!

[shine_on]

If you figure out that it was the bio-spira that was the problem then you may want to order it off the net. Thats what I did and it arrived next-day and was still chilled.

[ChesapeakeSwellfish]

Sorry for the loss of your new fish. It was helpful that you posted photos. Based upon those photos, I believe that the fish was in poor condition at the start - which puts you at a real disadvantage in a tank that, for some reason, apparently didn't cycle properly. I don't think you did anything wrong but had some bad luck. Look at the many pics of healthy gsp's on this site and try to select a healthy, robust specimen from the start. There are far more gsp's for sale in poor condition than in good shape.

[bhallg2k]

Honestly, I didn't check for a "best before" date on the package of Bio Spira. It didn't occur to me to do so. But it came directly from one of the area's most reputable fish store's fridge and straight into my tank.

They did a water check today when I returned the body. Ammonia was high, 1 ppm I believe. Same story with the nitrites, 1 ppm. Based on the fact that my water parameters were good prior to introducing the fish, I think I have to conclude that his demise caused the spike.

I'm a little disappointed, but not discouraged. I'll do a water test tomorrow and plan my next course of action. I appreciate everyone's help, and will probably post again with more questions once I have an idea as to what I'm going to do.