Archer/puffer/tank setup questions

[CoreyK]

I am considering turning my 45 gallon tank (36x12x24) into a brackish tank.

1) Is this a big enough tank to house archer(s) adequately? I've read conflicting information on the internet.

2) Could archers be housed with a puffer (figure 8 or GSP)?

3) How many GSP's/figure 8's could I house in this tank?

Assuming I did turn it brackish/marine,

4) would my current setup with gravel substrate and HOB filter work, or would it be preferable to set it up differently for archers/puffers?

Thanks.

[SkeptikaL]

I actually have a tank that exact same dimension with 3 F8's. I used my old HOB but now am changed to a Fluval 204. But as far as I knew, I used my old filter with new media (HOB which sat dry and vacant for a year or two) and setup BW tank. I changed shortly though from gravel to sand. Just preference tho.

[Dinsdale]

Archers need really big tanks. First off, they get 10" , and I believe they only thrive in groups. So you'd probably need a couple hundred gallons at least just for the archers.

3 F8's or 1 GSP could live in that tank, though.

[Phaedrus]

1) no

2) no

3) see dinsdales response

4) a hob would work fine if it is beefy enough. Something rated around 50-60 gallon tank or more would be best. A canister filter might be the best bet. (assuming the tank was set up for 1 gsp or 3 or 4 f8s)

[CoreyK]

Thanks guys. I figured I couldn't house archers, but just thought I'd ask

The filter I have is a Penguin Bio-wheel meant for a 75 gallon tank, so it'd be enough filtration I think.
I am leaning towards a group of F8's, because I like to see fish interact, wouldn't have to go full marine, and don't much like the idea of a 6" fish in a 3' aquarium. Although I think GSP's are cuter than F8's. Grr. Decisions.

Would figure 8's/GSP's prefer a sand substrate or crushed coral? And what's this I hear about having to stir sand weekly?

Skeptical - do your F8's seem happy in their 45g tank? Not stunted or overly aggressive?

Thanks guys, appreciate the help.

[SkeptikaL]

yea they're happy. They have plent of swimming area and love the little nooks. But honest, I don;t think they're affected at all by the height and lack of depth. So long as you have a good current, they're wonderful.

[Phaedrus]

If left undisturbed, debris will get into the sand and decompose eventually creating anarobic pockets. If these pockets are left to form and then disturbed, they release poisonous gases into the water column. Very bad for fish. To combat this, the sand must be stirred weekly, even underneath of decorations, to keep the pockets from forming.

[CoreyK]

Bringing this thread up from the dead -
I've had two Figure 8's in the 3' tank and a knight goby for ~ 2 years now. They've been through several moves, cured of IP's & ich, and are doing great!
I'm now re-thinking of adding an archer...

After doing some research I've discovered that Toxotes microlepis, a "smallscale archer", reaches a maximum length of only 4-6" and requires water parameters very similar to that of a figure 8 (basically a quite euryhaline fish). They sound very compatible, so that's not my concern, and I could provide more than adequate filtration and water changes as I'm used to doing them weekly as is...

Mainly I am concerned about a smaller archer having enough room in a 3' tank. I have lots of decor on the bottom for the puffers but I understand that archers spend most of their time at the top of the aquarium, which would leave them the entire footprint of the tank for swimming, ie. 36"x12".
What do you all think? Enough room?
Keep in mind that if it is too cramped, upgrading to a 4' tank is very possible, but probably not until around Christmas time.

Any input is appreciated,
Thanks!

[jmbishop]

I'm having no trouble keeping my archer in a 55 gallon with two GSPs however I am making arrangements for a much bigger tank. Until recently my archer has actually been pretty boring(probably why the pet store just gave him to me) he was list a pretty fish swimming at the top of the tank. The store that gave him to me was feeding him flakes and claimed they tried to get him to squirt but nothing worked. I have had him for months now and he hadn't done anything for me either. Then one day when feeding some shrimp to the puffers I heard water hit the lid. I didn't see it but I was sure it was the archer, I dipped my finger in the tank then dipped it in some freeze dried blood worms. It took less then a minute for him to squirt my finger. after a few more dips in the blood worm the puffers figured out there was food falling and they started grabbing what the archer was knocking down. The archer thenn started jumping out of the water to get my finger so I raised it and he started coming all the way out of the water. This is now the reason I'm replacing my lid ASAP.

[taureandragon76]

I'm having no trouble keeping my archer in a 55 gallon with two GSPs however I am making arrangements for a much bigger tank. Until recently my archer has actually been pretty boring(probably why the pet store just gave him to me) he was list a pretty fish swimming at the top of the tank. The store that gave him to me was feeding him flakes and claimed they tried to get him to squirt but nothing worked. I have had him for months now and he hadn't done anything for me either. Then one day when feeding some shrimp to the puffers I heard water hit the lid. I didn't see it but I was sure it was the archer, I dipped my finger in the tank then dipped it in some freeze dried blood worms. It took less then a minute for him to squirt my finger. after a few more dips in the blood worm the puffers figured out there was food falling and they started grabbing what the archer was knocking down. The archer thenn started jumping out of the water to get my finger so I raised it and he started coming all the way out of the water. This is now the reason I'm replacing my lid ASAP.

The only concern I would have with your setup is that don't GSP's eventually require full salt?

[taureandragon76]

Bringing this thread up from the dead -
I've had two Figure 8's in the 3' tank and a knight goby for ~ 2 years now. They've been through several moves, cured of IP's & ich, and are doing great!
I'm now re-thinking of adding an archer...

After doing some research I've discovered that Toxotes microlepis, a "smallscale archer", reaches a maximum length of only 4-6" and requires water parameters very similar to that of a figure 8 (basically a quite euryhaline fish). They sound very compatible, so that's not my concern, and I could provide more than adequate filtration and water changes as I'm used to doing them weekly as is...

Mainly I am concerned about a smaller archer having enough room in a 3' tank. I have lots of decor on the bottom for the puffers but I understand that archers spend most of their time at the top of the aquarium, which would leave them the entire footprint of the tank for swimming, ie. 36"x12".
What do you all think? Enough room?
Keep in mind that if it is too cramped, upgrading to a 4' tank is very possible, but probably not until around Christmas time.

Any input is appreciated,
Thanks!

I have this exact species of archer in my tank, actually I didn't know what exact species until you posted this so thanks:D Now I know that my guy is probably pretty much fully grown at 6 inches. I house mine with 2 F8's only problem I see so far is they tend to race for the crickets that land on the water but the archer is definitely the faster fish. Really though so far so good and they are in a 60g diamond tank which is just over 3feet wide and just as deep. Honestly if you can get your hands on one I would definitely go for it as they are amazing fish.

[jmbishop]

I've read that archer are sometimes found in marine environments and some articles have even said they might spawn in full SW. My guess is that they probably do fine in SW but its the wrong environment for there to be enough food on the surface in the ocean so they stay where the food is in the wild. But I don't plan on trying it, The archer will probably stay in the 55 gallon when the GSPs move up unless I find enough information to convince me it would be safe.

[CoreyK]

Honestly if you can get your hands on one I would definitely go for it as they are amazing fish.

Thanks for the input.
I've heard archers aren't terribly active, that they prefer to hang out under cover - does that describe yours?
That would make me more comfortable putting them in a 3' tank actually, knowing that they're not a constantly swimming fish.

My next step here is to find out whether or not I can even get my hands on this species...

[taureandragon76]

Honestly if you can get your hands on one I would definitely go for it as they are amazing fish.

Thanks for the input.
I've heard archers aren't terribly active, that they prefer to hang out under cover - does that describe yours?
That would make me more comfortable putting them in a 3' tank actually, knowing that they're not a constantly swimming fish.

My next step here is to find out whether or not I can even get my hands on this species...

Yes that is pretty much what mine does, just hangs around and every now and then he will swim to the other side of the tank and hang around some more. I find that when he is hungry is when he starts to cruise looking for bugs. Too bad your not where I am, my lfs just brought in a bunch of them.

[Dsmdan95]

What would be the BARE minium tank size needed just to start off with for one of the small species of archers. I know they get very big and not trying to be negligent. But With are tap water though fish seem not to grow fast. My Figure 8 who I had for over 6 months is so tiny in a 20 gallon. I plan on getting a new tank for just the archer and maybe a waspfish sine they take up different parts of the tank. I would will monitor water all the time and if he out grows the tank I would get a bigger one asap. The fish just don't seem to grow much at all but the fish seem very happy. I know your suppose to start big first and that whats what I did for the puff but in my case I would think it would b be more economical and make more sense to do what everyone else is instructed not to do and work your way up 3. What size would need for a 3 or 4 inch archer?