I've just learnt something about Marine biologists.... They don't wear watches.
At least not after they lose the first one. "Man not my rolex"
Steve from one newbie to another "Hang in there" I found the TPF to late to save my figure 8s but just in time to stop me from giving up. I have never felt dumb or patronized here no matter how far out my questions(or behavior) seem to me. Your heart is in the right place, you sound like you've got the smarts to follow through and now you have the support. I'm sure success is not far off.
My Betta is sick again
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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stevehelium
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 am
- Location: Osaka, Japan
Was really thinking of getting Neons for this little tank, but after more research, decided that they need more swimming space than I can provide. The tank is only 13 liters. So, it's off to the store to get some PLASTIC plants and a new Betta.
Are there any other fish that can actually go in a tank this size? My research points heavily toward NO. Once I move on to a larger tank (200 liters) I'm certain this tank will become a hospital tank (unless it's still occupied - think positive!)
Thanks for all the encouraging words! The only frustrating thing I can think of right now is that in my two experiences thus far, everything seemed fine and then WHAMO! Big problem that I can't track down fast enough to save the fish.
Well - off to give it another go!
-helium
Are there any other fish that can actually go in a tank this size? My research points heavily toward NO. Once I move on to a larger tank (200 liters) I'm certain this tank will become a hospital tank (unless it's still occupied - think positive!)
Thanks for all the encouraging words! The only frustrating thing I can think of right now is that in my two experiences thus far, everything seemed fine and then WHAMO! Big problem that I can't track down fast enough to save the fish.
Well - off to give it another go!
-helium
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stevehelium
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 am
- Location: Osaka, Japan
Just got back from the LPS. Picked out a smaller Betta than what I had before thinking perhaps he is a bit younger.
The pet store guy really annoyed me. I brought the BAG with the fish in it to the counter (no little bowls for these guys - they get bags and get HUNG on a rack like food). He took him to put him in a slightly bigger bag and when he wrapped it (the rubber band twirl trick) the fish went through what air force pilots experience in G Force training. I wanted to punch the guy.
Anyway - getting him ready to stick in the tank now.
Thanks again!
-helium
The pet store guy really annoyed me. I brought the BAG with the fish in it to the counter (no little bowls for these guys - they get bags and get HUNG on a rack like food). He took him to put him in a slightly bigger bag and when he wrapped it (the rubber band twirl trick) the fish went through what air force pilots experience in G Force training. I wanted to punch the guy.
Anyway - getting him ready to stick in the tank now.
Thanks again!
-helium
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Phaedrus
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1402
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:34 pm
- Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
- Contact:
There really isn't much that could stay in that small of a tank. A betta is basically all that would be comfortable in it.
Some pet store employees treat the fish like inventory only and have no real care for their work. It's a problem that extends to many lines of work, but is all the more disgusting when it involves live animals.
Good luck!
Some pet store employees treat the fish like inventory only and have no real care for their work. It's a problem that extends to many lines of work, but is all the more disgusting when it involves live animals.
Good luck!
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stevehelium
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 am
- Location: Osaka, Japan
Just a small update for those that have been reading.
The new Betta is doing well. I turned down the flow of the filter after reading that they prefer calm water. The new guy spends most of his time making bubbles at the top of the tank - trying to mate, from what I have read.
I only have one live plant in the tank now. After reading more about planted tanks, I realized that this 13 liter deal is probably not big enough to be planted and be safe for any fish. So I got some fake plants. Doesn't FEEL good, but the fish is happier, I think.
And the new Betta is smaller, and has MUCH better fins than the last - poor guy.
First water change tomorrow. But levels seem fine right now.
Thanks again for all the help. No need to post a reply - just wanted to express my gratitude at the help you're all giving a newbie!
cheers,
-helium
The new Betta is doing well. I turned down the flow of the filter after reading that they prefer calm water. The new guy spends most of his time making bubbles at the top of the tank - trying to mate, from what I have read.
I only have one live plant in the tank now. After reading more about planted tanks, I realized that this 13 liter deal is probably not big enough to be planted and be safe for any fish. So I got some fake plants. Doesn't FEEL good, but the fish is happier, I think.
And the new Betta is smaller, and has MUCH better fins than the last - poor guy.
First water change tomorrow. But levels seem fine right now.
Thanks again for all the help. No need to post a reply - just wanted to express my gratitude at the help you're all giving a newbie!
cheers,
-helium
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Boxermom
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:34 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
Just an FYI, they don't only build bubble nests when they are mating. They do it just for fun. Its a good sign, indicates that he's content. 
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
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stevehelium
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 am
- Location: Osaka, Japan
Thanks folks!
He does seem to be okay. I am a little worried about the water temp - it hit 32 today - no AC in my place. But I turned off the heater and it's down to about 30.5 now.
He also has been at the top of the tank ON HIS SIDE a few times, but when I move a finger near him he swims about - seems okay, but I'm not used to this behaviour at all.
He does seem to be okay. I am a little worried about the water temp - it hit 32 today - no AC in my place. But I turned off the heater and it's down to about 30.5 now.
He also has been at the top of the tank ON HIS SIDE a few times, but when I move a finger near him he swims about - seems okay, but I'm not used to this behaviour at all.
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Phaedrus
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1402
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:34 pm
- Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
- Contact:
on his side?! that seems unusual. Does he have trouble swimming at all? It could be nothing, or it could be a swim bladder problem or something like that. Keep an eye on him.
If the weather is extremely hot, i'd suggest leaving the heater unplugged until it cools down. You could also get a fan directed at the tank to cool it off via evaporation. If you do this, remember to add fresh water to replace the evaporated water. When the water evaporates, the H2O goes into the air, but the waste products are left behind at the same concentration in a smaller volume of water. Adding fresh water balances it back out.
If the weather is extremely hot, i'd suggest leaving the heater unplugged until it cools down. You could also get a fan directed at the tank to cool it off via evaporation. If you do this, remember to add fresh water to replace the evaporated water. When the water evaporates, the H2O goes into the air, but the waste products are left behind at the same concentration in a smaller volume of water. Adding fresh water balances it back out.
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stevehelium
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 am
- Location: Osaka, Japan
Hey folks.
I did the fan thing today and I am surprised at how much it helped. Lost about 2cm of water through one day, but the temp stayed at 29, which I consider okay.
Actually haven't changed the water yet, but checked the ammonia levels and they are still at zero, so water change will wait - so busy lately - that's one of the things about our scaly little friends!
Thanks again,
-helium
I did the fan thing today and I am surprised at how much it helped. Lost about 2cm of water through one day, but the temp stayed at 29, which I consider okay.
Actually haven't changed the water yet, but checked the ammonia levels and they are still at zero, so water change will wait - so busy lately - that's one of the things about our scaly little friends!
Thanks again,
-helium
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stevehelium
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 am
- Location: Osaka, Japan
Hey folks.
Been pouring through different web sites and forums trying to find the answer to two quesetions:
1. Where is the Betta's butt? And, seeing as I just found a great picture of the Betta anatomy as I was typing this, the only reason I am going to leave this question here is because MAN did he just POO! First time I've seen a fish poo. Ah, the Milestones of fatherhood.
I thought his internal organs were all coming out! (And to think I removed it from the tank and was going to post a photo...)
2. I know Bettas are hearty little guys, but how much of a temperature change can they tolerate? He seemed really sluggish today after I made a slight error. I finally got an AC unit installed in the room his tank is in and ran it all day at 24, which knocked the tanks temp down from 31 to about 27 in 7 or 8 hours. I noticed this kind of late, so did a 80% water change with 28 degree water and stuck the heater back in the tank and set it to 28.
I think I averted any disaster (I've had plenty of those), but for future reference I'm curious, what to Bettas, specifically, and fish, in general, tolerate when it comes to temperature change?
I know this is off topic from the original topic of this thread, but I don't want to pollute the Hospital beard with all my questions that have nothing to do with Puffers.
Thanks again, everyone. He really does seem pretty fine now after his water change and ... yeah ... losing a little weight.
Cheers!
-helium
Been pouring through different web sites and forums trying to find the answer to two quesetions:
1. Where is the Betta's butt? And, seeing as I just found a great picture of the Betta anatomy as I was typing this, the only reason I am going to leave this question here is because MAN did he just POO! First time I've seen a fish poo. Ah, the Milestones of fatherhood.
I thought his internal organs were all coming out! (And to think I removed it from the tank and was going to post a photo...)2. I know Bettas are hearty little guys, but how much of a temperature change can they tolerate? He seemed really sluggish today after I made a slight error. I finally got an AC unit installed in the room his tank is in and ran it all day at 24, which knocked the tanks temp down from 31 to about 27 in 7 or 8 hours. I noticed this kind of late, so did a 80% water change with 28 degree water and stuck the heater back in the tank and set it to 28.
I think I averted any disaster (I've had plenty of those), but for future reference I'm curious, what to Bettas, specifically, and fish, in general, tolerate when it comes to temperature change?
I know this is off topic from the original topic of this thread, but I don't want to pollute the Hospital beard with all my questions that have nothing to do with Puffers.
Thanks again, everyone. He really does seem pretty fine now after his water change and ... yeah ... losing a little weight.
Cheers!
-helium
Well, I mean different fish tollerate different ranges of change. Like puffs, for instance, are more sensitive to colder water than a betta would be... But I've always kept my bettas tanks in the lower 70's... Although, like you said, they're really tough fish.
Also, when you do WCs, do you add Prime and aerate your water for a good 2-3+ hours before introducing it to the tank? Tap water has a lot of chlorine and chloramine in it, and aerating it will let it all evaporate out; and of course the Prime eliminates it just the same, but it needs some time to diffuse and become affective.
Also, when you do WCs, do you add Prime and aerate your water for a good 2-3+ hours before introducing it to the tank? Tap water has a lot of chlorine and chloramine in it, and aerating it will let it all evaporate out; and of course the Prime eliminates it just the same, but it needs some time to diffuse and become affective.
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Boxermom
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:34 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
Prime doesn't need time, it works instantly. Doesn't need to be aerated or left sitting around, you can just add it to the new water and dump it in the tank. Some just add it to the tank and then add new water.
Bettas can handle fast temp changes as long as they aren't too extreme. He'll probably be okay.
I've always thought that their butts are where the anal and caudal fins meet. At least I think that's where I've seen poop hanging from.
Bettas can handle fast temp changes as long as they aren't too extreme. He'll probably be okay.
I've always thought that their butts are where the anal and caudal fins meet. At least I think that's where I've seen poop hanging from.
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1