I was visiting a forum one of my friends moderates and found some interesting info.
I was browsing some of their puffer and brackish profiles (which for the most part followed the advice on this forum) and then joined in on a thread in their brackish forum about brackish fish and eventually the conversation led to discussion of mollies.
One of the Mods came on and refuted my advice that live bearers do best in brackish water saying he/she read otherwise in an edition of Tropical Fish Hobbyist, possibly the May or June editions.
Apparently there is an American Livebearer's Association (hehe, I'm sure everyone but me knew that) and they have recently determined we have been wrong keeping them in brackish.
Since I don't get the magazine I was hoping someone on here does? I'd like to know if there is a credible study backing up their recommendation.
Wish I had more info on the matter. I just want to know what the correct care of these animals is since many of us own a molly or two.
ALA Recommends Live Bearers Now Be Kept in Freshwater
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OraLacerta
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OraLacerta
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PP: My bad. I thought aquarium salt was dumb to use in any situation... I think the ALA is disputing Mollies being kept in BW too. I wish I had the article!
LisaLisa: Wow, in full marine? Cool.
I was hoping someone on here had read the article. All I really have to go on is a rumour from some mod I don't know... Lol.
LisaLisa: Wow, in full marine? Cool.
I was hoping someone on here had read the article. All I really have to go on is a rumour from some mod I don't know... Lol.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
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Phaedrus
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I used to use aquarium salt for my platty tank. About one full teaspoon per 3 gallons. So basically not much.
They did fantastic. Then I wanted to see how they and the plants would do without it. So far, pretty much the same I think. The plants are doing well. Any improvement is more likely due to better lighting, and fertilizing.
The platties themselves may look a little less colourful, but that might be all in my head. Maybe I'll start adding a little bit of salt again to see if there is any noticeale difference with either the fish or plants.
I'd like to know the reasoning behind either way of doing it. salt or not.
They did fantastic. Then I wanted to see how they and the plants would do without it. So far, pretty much the same I think. The plants are doing well. Any improvement is more likely due to better lighting, and fertilizing.
The platties themselves may look a little less colourful, but that might be all in my head. Maybe I'll start adding a little bit of salt again to see if there is any noticeale difference with either the fish or plants.
I'd like to know the reasoning behind either way of doing it. salt or not.
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OraLacerta
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I vaguely remember reading an article like this recently... I don't remember mollies being one of the fish in question. If I remember correctly, (which is a hit or miss proposition these days) this was more about guppies, platies, swordtails, etc.
If I'm not mistaken, it was very similar to some of the posts we've had here about salt vs. GH/KH. RTR has posted an article along those lines:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/salt.html
Since the ALA web site didn't have any obvious articles or documents, I'll try to find the article when I get home tonight and see how bad my memory is getting
Personally, I don't put salt in with my Endler's (which some heathens might call glorified guppies)... the water where I live is moderately hard so they are thriving in plain ol' tap water. I've only had this batch of fish since May 24th and I've got babies everywhere!
If I'm not mistaken, it was very similar to some of the posts we've had here about salt vs. GH/KH. RTR has posted an article along those lines:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/salt.html
Since the ALA web site didn't have any obvious articles or documents, I'll try to find the article when I get home tonight and see how bad my memory is getting
Personally, I don't put salt in with my Endler's (which some heathens might call glorified guppies)... the water where I live is moderately hard so they are thriving in plain ol' tap water. I've only had this batch of fish since May 24th and I've got babies everywhere!
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Rusty
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Hey
This debate has been going on forever. As many mollies are coastal fish, they would be brackish, but there are also plenty of mollies, (yes even the Sailfins) that live in complete fresh water. I believe the author of the article you mentioned , postulated that mollies are sensitive to nitrites and nitrates, and stated that salt would help lessen the effects or them.
I keep all my mollies (Liberties, and Sailfins )in freshwater as they came from a friend who caught them in Florida in a completely freshwater stream, they do great in it (of course i don't cycle my tanks with them)
mollies are an amazing fish that can live equally well in fresh, brackish, and full marine.
I believe it just depends on where they were collected. That means if you have mollies from a brackish area, keep them brackish, or see if they will do marine, Fresh keep them fresh.
This debate has been going on forever. As many mollies are coastal fish, they would be brackish, but there are also plenty of mollies, (yes even the Sailfins) that live in complete fresh water. I believe the author of the article you mentioned , postulated that mollies are sensitive to nitrites and nitrates, and stated that salt would help lessen the effects or them.
I keep all my mollies (Liberties, and Sailfins )in freshwater as they came from a friend who caught them in Florida in a completely freshwater stream, they do great in it (of course i don't cycle my tanks with them)
mollies are an amazing fish that can live equally well in fresh, brackish, and full marine.
I believe it just depends on where they were collected. That means if you have mollies from a brackish area, keep them brackish, or see if they will do marine, Fresh keep them fresh.
Old fishermen never die, they just smell that way.
Rusty
Rusty
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lisalisa
That doesn't account at all for potential migratory behaviors; travel for spawning/ feeding etc. I mean, Bull Sharks have been found incredibly far upstream in FW rivers, but that in no way means that they would do best living in that condition forever.
Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to track original water conditions when buying from an lfs. Country is generally where that question begins and ends.
Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to track original water conditions when buying from an lfs. Country is generally where that question begins and ends.
I find bull sharks fascinating. Here's a great article on them: http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/s ... eucas.html
A bit like the Mollie. I wonder if we could cycle a tank with them?
I've only ever kept mollies and platies. Mollies from my experience really benefit being brackish fish, but I kept my platies (variatus platies BTW) in regular tap water (pH 7.6ish) and they did great. I don't recall reading they came from brackish waters.
Eric
A bit like the Mollie. I wonder if we could cycle a tank with them?
I've only ever kept mollies and platies. Mollies from my experience really benefit being brackish fish, but I kept my platies (variatus platies BTW) in regular tap water (pH 7.6ish) and they did great. I don't recall reading they came from brackish waters.
Eric
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OraLacerta
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Wow thanks for all of the responses guys! This is very informative.
Puffergeek: It would be awesome if you could find the article. I checked the ALA website as well and really couldn't find anything.
Oh yeah and Endlers, LOL, I've never heard that before... hehe... glorified guppies...
Rusty: I have no idea yet (until either the mod from that other forum or PG finds the article) what specific fish they were speaking of.
As for their proper conditions coinciding with where they were captured:
I have to disagree with that because that's a main reason F8s are called FW by many, because they can be found in FW streams. I think LL was right in saying that migration and spawning aren't accounted for by that theory.
Have any of you had success with Dalmatian mollies in BW? Some local lady offered me a pair for free but now I'm not certain they would be healthy in BW.
Puffergeek: It would be awesome if you could find the article. I checked the ALA website as well and really couldn't find anything.
Oh yeah and Endlers, LOL, I've never heard that before... hehe... glorified guppies...
Rusty: I have no idea yet (until either the mod from that other forum or PG finds the article) what specific fish they were speaking of.
As for their proper conditions coinciding with where they were captured:
I have to disagree with that because that's a main reason F8s are called FW by many, because they can be found in FW streams. I think LL was right in saying that migration and spawning aren't accounted for by that theory.
Have any of you had success with Dalmatian mollies in BW? Some local lady offered me a pair for free but now I'm not certain they would be healthy in BW.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
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YBeNormal
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Repeat after me, "There is no justifiable reason to cycle a tank using live fish. There is no justifiable reason to cycle a tank using live fish. There is no justifiable reason to cycle a tank using live fish..."Jayhawk wrote:A bit like the Mollie. I wonder if we could cycle a tank with them?
Better options:
- Pure ammonia
BIO-Spira
fish food
seed material from an established tank
--Bob
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puffergeek
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Found it! It's in the April 2006 issue, page ALA-11, which is really an "ALA insert" inside the regular magazine. There is also a very small article on Endler's... which between that, a small bit on seahorses, and the Takashi Amano articles I've been eating up, ensure I picked this issue up. (The articles by Amano have kept me buying this magazine of late.)
The article in question is really about the sailfin molly (P. latipinna) and if it is actually from costal regions or further inland (where they would never have been around salty water). He talks about different types of sailfins and where they (may) come from. The article also went on to talk about mollies being sensitive to nitrates and that salt can help a little with this.
The conclusion was that a little salt does not hurt, it is not needed by all types of mollies, and certainly not by all other livebearers.
He doesn't ever say mollies from coastal/brackish waters might do best with salt, but nor does he refute this. He also does not talk at all about long term health and/or lifespan of mollies, but it is just a short magazine article and it may not have fit. Also note that this is just one author's work, and not "ALA" scripture... although it looks like it may have been presented during the big ALA 2006 shindig.
I would not say this is a definitive article by any strech of the imagination. RTR's article covers this whole debate much better and with more sciencey bits. However, it does seem there is some recognition that "all livebearers need salt" is a myth among ALA folks.
There are several species of molly listed in Fishbase, but the "common molly", or Poecilia sphenops, are listed as fresh/brackish. I believe the "black molly" is this species. I've seen these guys happy in everything from fresh to marine conditions, eating and making babies as happy mollies do. Mine were breeding constantly in 1.005 SG before I separated the sexes. (Since I didn't know how lots of fry would impact my F8's diet, I decided it was better safe than sorry. Plus, I felt bad for the fry. Eating babies just seems wrong somehow...)
I did note that several species are listed only as freshwater, so if anyone has any doubts about their mollies, I'd suggest hitting the books (or the web) for a little research. Research is one reason I love this hobby; there is always more to learn!
This got a lot longer than I intended, but I hope it helps a little.
The article in question is really about the sailfin molly (P. latipinna) and if it is actually from costal regions or further inland (where they would never have been around salty water). He talks about different types of sailfins and where they (may) come from. The article also went on to talk about mollies being sensitive to nitrates and that salt can help a little with this.
The conclusion was that a little salt does not hurt, it is not needed by all types of mollies, and certainly not by all other livebearers.
He doesn't ever say mollies from coastal/brackish waters might do best with salt, but nor does he refute this. He also does not talk at all about long term health and/or lifespan of mollies, but it is just a short magazine article and it may not have fit. Also note that this is just one author's work, and not "ALA" scripture... although it looks like it may have been presented during the big ALA 2006 shindig.
I would not say this is a definitive article by any strech of the imagination. RTR's article covers this whole debate much better and with more sciencey bits. However, it does seem there is some recognition that "all livebearers need salt" is a myth among ALA folks.
There are several species of molly listed in Fishbase, but the "common molly", or Poecilia sphenops, are listed as fresh/brackish. I believe the "black molly" is this species. I've seen these guys happy in everything from fresh to marine conditions, eating and making babies as happy mollies do. Mine were breeding constantly in 1.005 SG before I separated the sexes. (Since I didn't know how lots of fry would impact my F8's diet, I decided it was better safe than sorry. Plus, I felt bad for the fry. Eating babies just seems wrong somehow...)
I did note that several species are listed only as freshwater, so if anyone has any doubts about their mollies, I'd suggest hitting the books (or the web) for a little research. Research is one reason I love this hobby; there is always more to learn!
This got a lot longer than I intended, but I hope it helps a little.