Is My Porc Puffer Sick?

gagned · Post by **gagned** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:20 pm

My girlfriend and I purchased a Porc Puffer (named Phillip) three weeks ago and have placed him in a fairly new 75 gallon tank (yes, we plan to upgrade to at least a 120g soon). He is such a cool little guy and we've had him eating out of our hands since day one.

After the first couple of days, we had a sharp ammonia spike. I added some Bio-Spira after changing 50% of the water. I have also been treating the tank with Prime and have added TLC. I have been doing almost daily water changes, and the ammonia levels have dropped drastically.

Despite these problems, Phillip has been doing really well. He has never missed a meal and has been pretty active, that is until yesterday. Yesterday, he puffed up for no apparent reason (I heard this is normal with Porcs), and has been (for the most part) staying in one area of the tank, towards the bottom under a rock. He has been hiding in this place for most of the day (except when it was feeding time, of course), and has not been his normal active self. Is this something that I should be concerned about? His coloring is good, his appetite is good, the water quality seems pretty good (we did have a pH drop yesterday and I added some Proper pH 8.2).

Anyway, I was wondering if there was anything else I could do for the little guy. Should I get him a tank mate (he's solo right now)? Should I change his diet (he's been eating live snails, frozen shrimp, Formula One, and Formula Two)? Is this normal Porc behavior? Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:43 pm

Hey Dan, I'm the guy from TFW that gave you the address

So basically is he sitting at the bottom unless food is put into the tank? Seems like he is bored with the tank IMO. Try to liven the tank up by moving some decor etc. or even adding some!

His diet should consist of the following (in addition to what you feed him):

~defrosted/live clams
~defrosted/live mussels

That will help with the beak, plus it will give him something to do (have to break the shell to get the food.) When you feed the frozen shrimp and formula 1&2 you defrost them in tank water or something before feeding it to him? If not it can give him a little stomache ache as if you were to eat a frozen dinner without cooking it. A tank mate would be fine and all but make the main concern bumping up the tank size at the moment.

Also to help with buffering your tank water use aragonite or crushed coral as the substrate of the tank, stops you from having to always buy chemicals.

gagned · Post by **gagned** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:58 pm

Hey Tihsho, thanks for the quick reply (plus giving me the address to this site - it's been very informative)!

So it doesn't sound like he's sick? That's a relief. We'll add some new decorations and rearrange the tank. I'll pick up some mussels and clams tomorrow and give him something to chew on.

I'll swing by TFW this weekend and pick up some aragonite. Should I move Phillip to my quarantine tank first? I'm sure it's going to make the tank pretty cloudy for a day or two , and I'm guessing he won't like that too much.

The poor little guy has had a tough couple of weeks. I'll be really happy when we get all the problems worked out.

Thanks again,

Dan

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:01 am

It will make the water cloudy, but that can be handled with poly fiber. Put that in your filter and rinse it every hour or so and your tank will be clean in a day or 2.

Jager · Post by **Jager** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:49 am

i think you should invest in a wide range of frozen cubed foods. porc puffers do NOT suffer the fast growing plates that most puffers exhibit, and while good crunchy food is a must, this allows you to pander to interesting choices. mine loves squid, mixed meats, veggies, nori, as well as bloodworms mysis, form 2, and freeze dried krill. and sea urchin

most are cubes that mine slowly works on and does NOT swallow whole, it defrosts in tank and does not add to discomfort as the parts are picked off and swallowed in small chunks. mine eats 4-5 cubes per feeding.

lots of luck doing that method for the last ten years for porcs.

as for tankmates, plenty of options. chromis and damsels, clownfish, wrasses, gobies, almost anything that is not a food you feed it is worth a shot.

i keep mine with cleaner shrimp, sea cucumbers, corals, clowns chromis, anthias &tangs (if you have that 120)

previous setups have been the more peaceful triggers most angels, butterfly fish, dragonettes, heck almost anything.

one thing ive learned though, is that these guys are not always so brilliant. ive lost a few to anemones, when they wouldnt stop diving into an anemone face first to get food.

i also have clams mussles and scallops and a barnacle in the tank with mine, she bothers nothing.

Post by **Puffer Queen** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:55 am

While crushed coral will help with the pH issues it could be detrimental to a puffer's health. This is not a natural substrate for them and I have seen and necropsied many puffers from many people that have ingested crushed coral while foraging for food and it has caused intestinal blockage and torsion.

If you want a substrate for the tank - sand is more natural and usually passes without obstruction.

lisalisa · Post by **lisalisa** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:43 am

How high is the ammonia right now?
I'm' not quick to call it boredom if you are reading ammonia, nitrItes, or high nitrAtes.
As for the crushed coral, I use aragonite in my tanks, and have for years with no problems whatsoever, on many many different species of puffers.

Post by **Puffer Queen** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:48 am

Good point, Lisa - if the ammonia is elevated, the pH will drop to "buffer" the ammonia. If you raise the pH, the ammonia will become "more" toxic.

Also, adding prime or other water conditioners can affect/alter the readings of some test kits.

gagned · Post by **gagned** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:35 am

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful advice. I put in an additional bag of aragonite tonight and did some rearranging of the tank (including putting in a couple of new decorations). Phillip seemed very curious (and not all that scared) about the commotion in the tank and spent quite some time exploring his new environment. The water got a little cloudy, but it didn't seem to bother him too much. Hopefully, this will bring him back to his normal happy self.

In regards to the water quality, tonight's testing showed the nitrite at 0 ppm, the nitrates at 0 ppm, and the ammonia at a little less than .25 ppm. I'd be happier if my ammonia levels were at 0, but at least I'm seeing a definite improvement compared to last week. Also, the pH seems to have stabilized at 8.2, at least for the time being.

I will try to vary his diet too, based off Jager's suggestions. I am a little concerned that I might be over feeding him (it is hard to resist when he begs so well). How much food should I be giving him on a daily basis? He's only about two inches right now, and I have been feeding him about three times a day.

Anyway, thanks again for all the advice. I'll keep you posted on his progress...

Dan

Jager · Post by **Jager** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:54 am

feed every other day. you want to limit the impact that the food is doing to the tank.

they dont eat that much in the wild per day, they have to hunt for it, also if you can train him to take food off one side or area of the tank, that way if you haev to feed meds to him hes morelikely to take them.

lisalisa · Post by **lisalisa** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:57 pm

gagned wrote:In regards to the water quality, tonight's testing showed the nitrite at 0 ppm, the nitrates at 0 ppm, and the ammonia at a little less than .25 ppm. I'd be happier if my ammonia levels were at 0, but at least I'm seeing a definite improvement compared to last week.

The ammonia is certainly better!
I would still be on wc's to get it to 0.

gagned · Post by **gagned** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:16 pm

Well, Phillip has shown some signs of improvement. He is still hanging around in one place during parts of the day, but has taken to begging every time he sees me leaving the kitchen. I've cut down on his feedings and my girlfriend and I have come to the conclusion that he might be a little on the lazy side (possibly from over feeding?). I'm still unsure how much food to give him, but have limited him to roughly about the equivalent of one cube of food a day. I have some freeze dried shrimp (in the shell) and freeze dried krill being delivered to my house tomorrow, which I will add to his diet.

Now, I don't know much about porc behavior, but he seems to really like it if I put my hand in the tank and "play with him." He doesn't follow my finger on the outside of the tank anymore, but he does seem to like to swim around my hand, especially if I stir up the water a little.

The ammonia still hasn't cleared up 100%. It just doesn't want to drop down to 0. Fortunately, it hasn't gone above .25 either. I've added some more TLC to the tank and I'm continuing to do my water changes. Also, I'm still having slight drops in the pH and have to add buffer about every other day. I'm getting ready to do yet another water change in a few, so we'll see what happens.

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's help. I really appreciate it.

Dan

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:23 pm

Seems the 'diet' has caused him to be active to get food. What size (length from nose to tail) is he? Size will be more or less what will help determine how much to feed. It's one thing to give him a 'treat' of freeze dried krill on the days you skip feeding him but don't carry away making it a meal. As for playing with him, I'm guessing he thinks your going to feed him so watch your fingers or just keep them out of the tank. Glad to hear things have improved!

gagned · Post by **gagned** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:35 pm

Hey Tihsho!

He's about three inches (I know I said two in an earlier post - I guess that's what I get for typing at 3am, huh?). So far, he hasn't gone for my fingers, but I will keep an eye on him.

Dan

Tihsho · Post by **Tihsho** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:41 pm

Remember those beaks are built for crushing shells and hard coral (some species eat it)... just imagine bone...

At 3 inches 1 to 2 defrosted shrimp/defrosted mussel/small filets of fish or a few cubes of formula 1&2/squid soaked in some Zoe or Garlic gaurd should be enough of a meal for the little fella. Between meals do feed some fresh veggies (peas are a favorite!) and some nori slices.

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Is My Porc Puffer Sick?

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