Just finished with a 75% water change. The SG is now 1.015. According to the FAQ, I should gradually decrease it to 1.009.
The water temp is currently in the low 70s - should I increase it?
The puffer's eyes seem to be sunken into his head slightly, and he is still covered in some sort of white-ish colored slime/skin that looks like it is pealing off.
Thanks again,
-Charlie
Puffer on verge of death - help please.
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
update:
Water conditions are currently :
PH = 8.4
Amonia = .5
Nitrate = Between 0-5 (closer to 0 )
Nitrite = 0ppm
Specific gravity = 1.015
The 75% water change was done 3-4 hours ago.
The puffer has been laying on the bottom for several hours not and doesn't look like he has moved.
I stopped at the pet store and bought Melafix and Pimafix - and added 5ml of each to the tank. According to the label melafix will help with the eyes and slime and the pimafix will help with the redish coloration.
Any other advice or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again,
-Charlie
Water conditions are currently :
PH = 8.4
Amonia = .5
Nitrate = Between 0-5 (closer to 0 )
Nitrite = 0ppm
Specific gravity = 1.015
The 75% water change was done 3-4 hours ago.
The puffer has been laying on the bottom for several hours not and doesn't look like he has moved.
I stopped at the pet store and bought Melafix and Pimafix - and added 5ml of each to the tank. According to the label melafix will help with the eyes and slime and the pimafix will help with the redish coloration.
Any other advice or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again,
-Charlie
The puffer's condition has gone from bad to worse. His eyes are very small and closed and he hasn't moved in 2-3 hours. I just did a fresh water dip and basically had to lift him with my hand to put him in a transfer cup. Once in the cup he almost turned completely upside-down, the only movement I could see was short quick breathing and a little wiggle from his rear dorsal fin.
He is back in the hospital tank now (temp is around 74F). He is just laying on the bottom breathing and is covered in some sort of slime.
If anyone can offer any advice at this point please do so, I've done everything that I can find on the forums and FAQs and he is just going downhill.
-Charlie
He is back in the hospital tank now (temp is around 74F). He is just laying on the bottom breathing and is covered in some sort of slime.
If anyone can offer any advice at this point please do so, I've done everything that I can find on the forums and FAQs and he is just going downhill.
-Charlie
He now has his eyes open and looks like the slime is gone - his fins are moving but he is just sitting in place sort of twitching. Would you consider this a sign of improvment or is he getting worse? He looks better aside from the strange twitching.
Advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
-Charlie
Advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
-Charlie
-
lisalisa
That ammonia is too high. Do as many water changes every 3 hours as needed. Your salinity is OK as is ATM. Keep temp as is. Add another air stone for surface disturbance, to add more oxygen to the water. You may also want to add methylene blue, to help him breathe, and try and reduce the effects of his metabolite poisoning.
-
Pufferpunk
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I was thinking the same thing. On the other hand, Kelly (Pufferqueen) never euthanizes a fish... I hope she comes back here w/some wisdom about this, before it's too late.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
lisalisa
I am never quick to euthanize fish.
I had an ick outbreak in a marine tank, and I was scooping out a deceased ocellaris clown, and he sort of twitched a bit. Everyone (including respected peers) told me to euthanize him, but instead, I put him in a small 5-gallon tank, ran copper (not for puffs please) and lowered salinity, including FW baths, amongst other things. Anyway, to make a long story short, he recovered slowly over a few months, and he (now a she) is still living in my reef tank, happy and porky
.
I do understand not wanting to see an animal suffer.
Charlie, any update?
I had an ick outbreak in a marine tank, and I was scooping out a deceased ocellaris clown, and he sort of twitched a bit. Everyone (including respected peers) told me to euthanize him, but instead, I put him in a small 5-gallon tank, ran copper (not for puffs please) and lowered salinity, including FW baths, amongst other things. Anyway, to make a long story short, he recovered slowly over a few months, and he (now a she) is still living in my reef tank, happy and porky
.I do understand not wanting to see an animal suffer.
Charlie, any update?
-
Puffer Queen
- Mentor
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:35 am
- Location: Louisville, KY
- Contact:
Charlie,
I think this puffer's condition is going down quickly - besides the disease process, which I am not convinced it is ich, LOTS of stress -unstable water parameters, varying temperatures, moving it, doing freshwater dips, using multiple medications - copper free medications, melafix and pimafix, lowering the salinity........
The mucous production, eye sinking and twitching is not good. I have only seen a couple recover at this point.
Need to remove ALL of the medications. I do NOT recommend melafix and pimafix as I have seen many species of fish and seahorses experience oxygen deprivation with these. (especially ones with gill parasites). Increase aeration. No lights on the tank. No more freshwater baths at this point - puffer is too fragile. Leave salinity at 1.015 -1.018. In this case, I would start cupramine. Copper is the only known cure for MI (marine velvet - amyloodinium ocellatum) - this is sometimes confused with ich and often progresses very fast.
I know some say puffers will not tolerate copper or that copper "burns" their stomach, etc - unfounded belief. I would like to see published or documented reports showing this - necropsy reports or pics of these burned esophagus, stomach, etc. Yes puffers are scaleless so they are more sensitive and not as tolerant of overdosing as other scaled fishes. Copper when used properly (correct dose - monitored daily in stable water parameters, instituted before other pathogenic conditions or organ failure is involved, etc) is effective against both MI and ich. While it does cause problems with possible fertility issues when used long term, like any other medication when used incorrectly it can cause harm. Public aquariums, breeders, and myself have used it with great success for many years.
Again sorry that your puffer is so sick.
I think this puffer's condition is going down quickly - besides the disease process, which I am not convinced it is ich, LOTS of stress -unstable water parameters, varying temperatures, moving it, doing freshwater dips, using multiple medications - copper free medications, melafix and pimafix, lowering the salinity........
The mucous production, eye sinking and twitching is not good. I have only seen a couple recover at this point.
Need to remove ALL of the medications. I do NOT recommend melafix and pimafix as I have seen many species of fish and seahorses experience oxygen deprivation with these. (especially ones with gill parasites). Increase aeration. No lights on the tank. No more freshwater baths at this point - puffer is too fragile. Leave salinity at 1.015 -1.018. In this case, I would start cupramine. Copper is the only known cure for MI (marine velvet - amyloodinium ocellatum) - this is sometimes confused with ich and often progresses very fast.
I know some say puffers will not tolerate copper or that copper "burns" their stomach, etc - unfounded belief. I would like to see published or documented reports showing this - necropsy reports or pics of these burned esophagus, stomach, etc. Yes puffers are scaleless so they are more sensitive and not as tolerant of overdosing as other scaled fishes. Copper when used properly (correct dose - monitored daily in stable water parameters, instituted before other pathogenic conditions or organ failure is involved, etc) is effective against both MI and ich. While it does cause problems with possible fertility issues when used long term, like any other medication when used incorrectly it can cause harm. Public aquariums, breeders, and myself have used it with great success for many years.
Again sorry that your puffer is so sick.
Kelly
-
lisalisa
Thank you Kelly. I do agree with your recommendations.
The reason we say not to use copper with puffers, is that all too often it in mis-used, to the demise of the animal. It really is not a newbie medication, IMHO.
That said, if it is needed here, and you do use it Charlie, please be sure to use it properly; monitor it stringently.
The reason we say not to use copper with puffers, is that all too often it in mis-used, to the demise of the animal. It really is not a newbie medication, IMHO.
That said, if it is needed here, and you do use it Charlie, please be sure to use it properly; monitor it stringently.
-
Puffer Queen
- Mentor
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- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:35 am
- Location: Louisville, KY
- Contact:
Cupramine is much safer and more effective than the other coppers on the market.
I would recommend newbies as well as advanced hobbyists use cupramine when copper is needed.
Copper is the only effective cure for MI. MI can kill a fish in less than 24 hours after the symptoms become apparent - especially in immune compromised, stressed fish.
I would recommend newbies as well as advanced hobbyists use cupramine when copper is needed.
Copper is the only effective cure for MI. MI can kill a fish in less than 24 hours after the symptoms become apparent - especially in immune compromised, stressed fish.
Kelly
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32979
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
I think with copper,
you must have a copper test kit & test often! Most don't do that.correct dose - monitored daily in stable water parameters
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Thank you for all of your help. Unfortunitly the puffer passed away shortly after my last post. I think that my efforts were just too little too late in this case - I wish I would have stepped in sooner.
My brother, who lacks a shred of common sense, has sold his 55 gallon tank and ordered a 125 gallon tank that will be delivered this Friday.
My entire family has tried to talk him out of this decision based on the result of his previous SW tank, and his lack of responsibility and experience. Since he refuses to change his mind, I am going to do my best to make sure this doesn't turn into another failure.
Please take a look at this thread and let me know what I should be doing and what the proper steps are : http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... 4469#44469
Thanks again,
-Charlie
My brother, who lacks a shred of common sense, has sold his 55 gallon tank and ordered a 125 gallon tank that will be delivered this Friday.
My entire family has tried to talk him out of this decision based on the result of his previous SW tank, and his lack of responsibility and experience. Since he refuses to change his mind, I am going to do my best to make sure this doesn't turn into another failure.
Please take a look at this thread and let me know what I should be doing and what the proper steps are : http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... 4469#44469
Thanks again,
-Charlie