To give a little backstory about a week ago I purchased a juvi Jack Dempsey, he is ~1.5". Around 3 days ago I noticed he was spitting out food (suck the flake in then spit it out). I immediatly tried other foods with little success. I also noticed he was acting lethargic, basically he acts like a Discuss (slow swimming). So thinking it was poor water condition I did a 30% water change. Now, today I notice that he is flashing, immediatly i check his body for ich and/or flukes. Nothing.
Water Params were normal and shouldnt have caused the change:
Nitrate - 30ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm
pH - 6.6
I added a little scrap coral to try and buffer the pH up a little, but that shouldnt have caused the flashing. Also I have dosed some Malacite Green, Melafix, Pimafix, and now I am giving him a dip in some copper med.
Now I have noticed another behavior, he is opening his mouth. It looks like the fish equivilent of coughing.
Now originally I thought it was flukes, what else can I try?
THANKS!
CLIFF NOTES:
1.) Jack Dempsey is Flashing, lethargic, spitting out food.
2.) Treated with a mixture of 2G Water, 1 tsp Marine Salt, 1 tsp Malchite Green, 1/2 Tab Parasite Tab (copper) for 4 hours. Treated tank with malacite green for 7 days.
3.) Performed two 40% water changesin past week.
4.) 5 days later he is flashing and appears to have laboured breathing.
PLAN OF ACTION
1.) Long term treatment with copper in spare 25G tank?
2.) ???
You're my last hope...
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Check the heater in the tank for cracks. I once had an Oscar that flashed suddenly for no reason, it seemed and only at certain times. I was doing an emergency water change and found glass in the tank and upon further inspection, found that the heater had shattered and was shocking the fish. My Oscar was the only who seemed to feel it. I didn't even feel any shocks when my hands were in the water. Just athought.
If you've looked for the usual and found nothing - start looking for the unusual.
If you don't see any external parasites, I'd stear clear of copper meds.
Is he eating? If he's eating, is he spitting back out food? It could be some internal parasites cause discomfort thus the flashing behavior.
Basically, you've treated for external parasites but not internal parasites or bacterial infection. If he's spitting food, I'd treat for internal parasites. If he's not, I'd first use carbon to clean the meds out of your water and consider treating for bacterial infection.
Eric
Is he eating? If he's eating, is he spitting back out food? It could be some internal parasites cause discomfort thus the flashing behavior.
Basically, you've treated for external parasites but not internal parasites or bacterial infection. If he's spitting food, I'd treat for internal parasites. If he's not, I'd first use carbon to clean the meds out of your water and consider treating for bacterial infection.
Eric
Well I am currently at the end of a 2 day salt bath to try and heal up any gill damage. From the symtoms I have it seemed like the gills were damaged somehow.Jayhawk wrote:If you don't see any external parasites, I'd stear clear of copper meds.
Is he eating? If he's eating, is he spitting back out food? It could be some internal parasites cause discomfort thus the flashing behavior.
Basically, you've treated for external parasites but not internal parasites or bacterial infection. If he's spitting food, I'd treat for internal parasites. If he's not, I'd first use carbon to clean the meds out of your water and consider treating for bacterial infection.
Eric
He has been eating apparently I see him poop regularly and I saw him eat a guppy fry yesterday. The poop has a pale pink color. I think he has been picking off guppy fry and ghost shrimps.
Could the gasping be caused by IPs?
Could you see the gill flukes? I cant see anything hanging from the gill plate. I have treated two medicines whhich claimed to be toxic to gill flukes, and yet no improvement.Jayhawk wrote:Gill flukes - That sounds like a real possibility. I lost a puffer to them about a year ago...good luck. I don't have any good advice on treating them.
It doesn't sound like IPs of any sort - I just thought he could have been flashing from overall discomfort.
Eric
Malacite Green & Parasite Away
I just got done with the two day salt bath, and he doesnt seem too much better. Still laying on the bottom of the tank as usual.
I could just barely see the gill flukes and they're much easier to see on a puffer than a cichlid (they were obvious when he was deceased and I really check them out).
If you've treated for them, I could only suggest one of two courses of action:
1) Clean up the water, using carbon, and see what happens.
2) Try a broad spectrum antiobotic...you never know what bacterial infections he might harbor that could lead to odd symptoms.
Eric
If you've treated for them, I could only suggest one of two courses of action:
1) Clean up the water, using carbon, and see what happens.
2) Try a broad spectrum antiobotic...you never know what bacterial infections he might harbor that could lead to odd symptoms.
Eric
I am treating the WHOLE tank now with Jungle Anti-Parasite and Melafix. I just noticed that his gills have some sort of white film, and look to be swollen. I really hope he pulls throughJayhawk wrote:I could just barely see the gill flukes and they're much easier to see on a puffer than a cichlid (they were obvious when he was deceased and I really check them out).
If you've treated for them, I could only suggest one of two courses of action:
1) Clean up the water, using carbon, and see what happens.
2) Try a broad spectrum antiobotic...you never know what bacterial infections he might harbor that could lead to odd symptoms.
Eric