Figure 8s surface swimming

[MasonPaulUk]

Hi Puffer forum

I'm a new Figure 8 puffer owner, with a few years experience with keeping "regular" tropical fishes but I really need you collective help with these new guys

Answers to the red rules are:
7.5PH / 180 GH / 0 Ammonia / 0 Nitrite / 20 Nitrates / unknown salinity (new hydrometer in the post) / Temp around 26C
Tank c95 litres, housing 3 juvenile figure 8s since picking them up from local store 2 weeks ago, plants Java fern and some java moss.
Fed on shelled tiger prawn, clam, ramshorn snails, frozen bloodworm.
Water changes 50% weekly, though since experiencing this problem 30% each day for the last 3 days.
On Sunday I introduced two large pinches of Marine salt (OceanReef) into the mix before waiting then adding it during the weekly water change.
They are currently being treated with API Primafix for white fuzz on one of their bodies (hangover from the condition at the store), they are on week 2 of treatment for worms (1.5mm per week for 4 weeks).
Aquariums set up for around 6 weeks now, i take readings every other day with dips, and once a week with liquid kits.

So everything has been fine until 3 days ago, when I noticed the smallest of the 3 circling at the top of tank, a few hours later i noticed that the other two joined in. This behaviour is completely different to that of when they expect feeding as they pay no attention to me and just circle around at a 45degree angle with mouth on surface of water.

I immediately added a airstone and have run this constantly during the day. I also changed 30% of their water, and waited thinking it might be to do with the oxygen in the water (ive set my outflow to the aquarium wall to reduce the flow as it seemed too powerful for the pufferS). They seemed to react normally but then by the late evening the behaviour came back. I carried out a further 30% change before bed and tested the water.


I had thought it had resolved itself with the water change however they started doing it again, ive conducted further 30% water change daily since (day 3 now), this evening they are pretty much at the surface constantly. I contacted my local store and was told I should start introducing marine salt now, therefore I added half a cup of marine salt with my water change today (leaving it to dissolve over a number of hours). This currently seems to have no affect.

Im really worried about them but stuck as to what to do? Nothing ive read suggests any other solution than those i have already done? If you can please help.

Thanks all

[MasonPaulUk]

So update: all three have been mouth to surface for the last 6hrs, I caved in and changed c50% water and they are now swimming freely and investigating as normal... though this seems to be the trend and fear ill wake up to the same cycle again tomorrow :/

[Pufferpunk]

Hi, I swear, this sounds absolutely crazy! I've been doing this for a very long time & have never heard anything like this. What liquid test kits are you using?

[MasonPaulUk]

Hi Pufferpunk thanks for you reply. I know right its so odd

My liquid test kit is AP Freshwater Master test kit and my sticks are API 5in1.

My other two tanks of tropical are absolutely fine (same tap water. I can try and link photos/video if i can work out how

Edit: Todays update;
- AM they were behaving as normal apart from the smaller one which is spending c50% of its time with mouth on surface. by the afternoon all of them were on the top again.
- 7.4PH / 0.25ppm Ammonia / 0 ppm Nitrite / 20 - 40 ppm Nitrates (tap is around 20ppm nitrates here) fresh reading using liquid kit.
- conducted a c50% water change and behaviour returning to normal again for now...

Edit: 1st July;
So it would appear for now things are back to normal, no signs of distress since i did that 50% wc. Weird that it went on for 4 days, despite c50% wc daily? Though I have stopped with the Pimafix?

[Pufferpunk]

Maybe it was the Pimafix then. Do your other tanks have 0.25 ammonia in them, too?

[MasonPaulUk]

They usually read about 0.

So things had gone back to normal after around 5 days of 50% WC, However....

Yesterday they started again! :*( I changed 50% water, and this morning back to the top i did 30%, and within 2 hours they are back at the top! Im about to do another 50% change, its madness.

I have since stopped with the Pimafix as the white spot from the shop cleared up so it cant be that. It cant be the dewormer as this happened before I put their weekly dose in.

The only common thing I can tell is the feeding of "dried FD Snails" these dried snails seem more like marine ones with hard shells, my local store told me they would be fine for Fig8 however when i opened the pack its the very hard shelled variety you find shells of on UK beaches they pick at them but as they are so hard they really cant get into them like the live Ramshorns i was feeding. :/ Could it be these dried snails are polluting my water?

[Pufferpunk]

How is the O2 exchange in there? Plenty of surface agitation?

[MasonPaulUk]

So I had stopped with the new "dried snails" food and the issue hadnt come back I thought yay thats got to be it but.. I did my weekly maintenance today, tank water didnt look as clean as it usually does so did around 70% WC as on has some cloudiness to one of its eyes. Added in some API Melafix and tap safe. All seemed well, but then I was about to go to bed tonight and turn around and all three are up at the top again :*( its killing me

Immediately did a 20% WC turned on the airstone and changed the outfloor to spray along the entire top of the water.

As you ask about the 02 exchange and surface agitation id say, maybe that is the issue. I had for a number of days this week, along side the not giving them those dried snails, changed the outflow spray bar to go across the tank. I had noticed the flow was a bit strong for them and they didnt swim around as freely as normal but i thought it see how they got on. I changed it back this afternoon to face the side of the tank to reduce the flow, and BAM tonight they are on the top again! With the heat too and the outflow not breaking up the surface of the water could that really be the problem?

My other two tanks have the outflow at the same position, facing the glass to reduce flow, and to not disturb floating plants and none of those fish have a problem (granted some are Gourami).

[MasonPaulUk]

Just to wrap up this mystery, it would appear the surface agitation was not sufficient and this was causing the low oxygen. After redirecting the outflow over the top of the water I have since had 0 issues, though the puffers have had to get used to an increased flow of water.

Also the medication for deworming might had attributed to the need for more oxygen in the water and might have took longer to leave the system than i anticipated.

Thought id update in case anyone else runs into a similar mystery!

[Pufferpunk]

It is best to soak their food in dewormer since FW fish do not drink water.

[Kbarnette6490]

I've check the salinity and tested the water I just did a water change yesterday and my puffer is staying at the surface and refusing to eat he will look dead for a little bit then randomly swim somewhere else he doesnt have any discoloration or anything and he seemed fine yesterday

[Pufferpunk]

Please start a new thread in this forum & answer all the questions above, in red.