Need some help plz

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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LEROUXA
Puffer Fry
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Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am
Location (country): Canada, Alberta

Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

I’m new to this forum. I have GSP , they were doing great till this am. But I did change a few things.
I have a 45G, with power head and 2 HOBs. Substrate cichlid sand. Crushed coral.
Salinity runs between 1.019-1.021 (currently 1.021) they are usually happier in the higher range. Use marine salt.
Change yesterday evening.
I added some live rock yesterday and 4 mini plants of Microalgae and a canister filter. Into the canister I put the bio media of the smaller HOBs and left the one larger HOBs. So currently filtration is canister and the larger HOBs.
Puffers this am are not happy. (They we’re fine and swimming till midnight with I went to bed) . Sitting on the bottom and have a bit of a black belly :( . I have done about a 3” water change. Added prime and stability (sea Chem)
Levels tested with API strip
No3 o
No2 o
Ph 7.5 (so its low)
KH 120
GH 180+

Should I change out more water ASAP? And wait and see?
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Need some help plz

Post by Pufferpunk »

1st of all, toss those test strips--they're crap. Get yourself an API liquid test kit.
What about ammonia? What are you using to test SG? Was it ever calibrated? Where did the LR come from? Was it cured? Do you have a protein skimmer? If you are at SW levels, ditch the canister/HOB filters--those are for FW. Get a protein skimmer & 1 1/2-2lbs LR/gal. Really, your tank is only large enough for a single adult GSP, with enough LR needed. How many puffers do you have?
Moving to the Hospital forum, so you can answer all the questions in red.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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LEROUXA
Puffer Fry
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Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am
Location (country): Canada, Alberta

Re: Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

I did get a API kit - No3, No2, Ammonia...all 0 ph 8.2
LR was cured from LFS which I called this am too - it had been for quite sometime. To test salt I use a Fluval Sea and it’s attached in the tank. They are not Marine yet - so I was told no protein skimmer yet. And the Canister is new which is why I’m running it with the HOB that was on then back.
I found out my spray bar was prob pointed to far down angle so I have angled it up to the surface. And I’m toying around with turning off the power head which is on the same side (it was pointing towards the sand)
LFS said they stressed with the decor change as I took out the large boat when I added the live rock. I know tank when they get larger is to small but for now they were fine till I changed flow of water (with canister spray bar) and the live rock. They said to wait a few days and see how they adjust since my water is fine.
They r swimming around more now but stick to the top of the tank more but kinda are acting odd still with bumping around (sorta like they are not trying to swim)
I did add stress guard (sea chem) this evening too and will keep adding this.
I’m going to not feed them I think for a few days they are not interested it food today at all anyhow.
Seems I have to be patient - not my strong suit Wilber they obviously don’t feel well :(
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Need some help plz

Post by Pufferpunk »

1.021 IS marine (anything over 1.018) & you can definitely add a protein skimmer. I find it quite odd that your LFS says the tank isn't SW but sells you LR for it? You should be showing some nitrate.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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LEROUXA
Puffer Fry
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Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am
Location (country): Canada, Alberta

Re: Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

Ok I wil look into one for sure
I took the LR out as that seemed to be causing a big issue - and put it back the way it was. They seem to be slowly coming around. Tank Parms still good
I’m learning the hard way not to always trust the LFS. Thanks for all your help!
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32987
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: Need some help plz

Post by Pufferpunk »

I would never trust a LFS about their LR. They go thru a lot & most of it they just received. It is shipped damp, in newspaper. LOTS of die-off when it is exposed to air. Keep the rick in a bucket with an airstone & small heater, doing WC on it, when ammonia shows. You can do a search on how to cure LR.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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hadla
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Re: Need some help plz

Post by hadla »

Some have decent live rock, it just depends on the store and employees :)
Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
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LEROUXA
Puffer Fry
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am
Location (country): Canada, Alberta

Re: Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

So the LR is out of the tank since Sat. (So it was only in Friday night then Sat) and out. Puffers were not doing great and it was the only thing I could think of, for the big change I did.
Now the tank is back to the normal it was before, Did another water change today (25%). Added Prime and Stability.
They are still sitting on the bottom, lethargic, wont eat. Sorta bonk around a bit if they are moving, two of them their bellies go back white but they are still pretty listless. Green color on their heads is still bright (not sure if you need that info, but figured more is better).... I figure I just have to wait now and see. The water Parmaters are still the same No2, No3, Ammonia 0. Ph reading 8-8.2, put after the water change I am going to test that again. The salt is 1.018-1.016 (brought down slight from the 1.020 it was before. If I just have to wait it out, what is the time frame I am looking at? any ideas. I literally have NO clue what to do now besides wait and keep the water and everything at the status quo. Or is there anything I can do to tempt them to eat? Figured if they havent ate since Friday they will still be ok - but figured to ask. Thanks
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Pufferpunk
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T miurus
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C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
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Re: Need some help plz

Post by Pufferpunk »

I'm confessed as to why you show no nitrate? How was this tank cycled? How big is the tank? 3 puffers in there, right?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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LEROUXA
Puffer Fry
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Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am
Location (country): Canada, Alberta

Re: Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

Tank is 45g and I know it needs to be larger but for juveniles it is ok for now. They were fine before I changed things. I’ll re test water today and take and pic and add to this thread. Yesterday and again today all white bellies and way better color - but.... still won’t eat and are glass surfing like crazy - or playing in the power head ... maybe need to burn off energy from sitting on the tank floor for a few days ? Salt dropped with water change , now @o.018 - not sure why it came down as I did the water change as always and used the hydrometer in the bucket
Either way I hope they decide to eat soon - I’m
Glad they are not all black/Grey and listless anymore
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LEROUXA
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Re: Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

Also it does get some algae on the glass so maybe trace nitrates - and algae eats it?
Plus I thought have ammonia nitrates and nitrites ref in the test kits was a bad thing??? I thought I’d test is reg it then I have an issue for sure
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32987
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Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:
Contact Pufferpunk

Re: Need some help plz

Post by Pufferpunk »

Plus I thought have ammonia nitrates and nitrites ref in the test kits was a bad thing??? I thought I’d test is reg it then I have an issue for sure
I don't understand this?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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LEROUXA
Puffer Fry
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am
Location (country): Canada, Alberta

Re: Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

To clarify: I thought that having Nitrates, Nitrates, Ammonia readings in the tank are bad things..... my saltwater API test kit doesnt read anything, all top squares on the test kit chart (provided with the test kit), except PH which is 8-8.2 (cant quite tell on the color), but looks more towards 8. I do not know how to load the image, I took of the test I did yesterday late afternoon.
Anyhow the puffers are not black/grey now, now they are white bellies, bright heads... but I am wondering how long it will take to get them to want to eat? currently they are glass surfing and playing in the currents in the tank. lol, maybe energy to burn after their stress out? I am going to get Garlic Guard today, to see if I can entice them to eat. Unless putting that in a Green Spotted Puffer tank is not a good idea. I tried yesterday early afternoon with some mysis shrimp (the ones that come in frozen cubes) and they didnt want to eat...came to check it out but then turned away or ignored it completely.
I should have answered your questions above - over 6 months the tank has been running. There are 3, 1.5" (2") green spotted puffers in a 45G bowfront tank (and I do know that is it 1 for every 30G, when they turn into adults). Filtered with Hydor Filter Canister, using the spray bar, and they have bubble wall and a hydor power head in there as well. Substrate on the bottom is coral crushed into sand.
BTW thank you for your help PUFFERPUNK
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32987
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:
Contact Pufferpunk

Re: Need some help plz

Post by Pufferpunk »

You are correct about ammonia/nitrIte--they should always be 0. Showing nitrAte <20, is perfectly normal & shows the tank is cycled & the biological filtration is working. Only for a reef tank, do you want nitrAte as close to 0 as possible.

I wouldn't waste your $$$ on Garlic Guard, nor would I dose the tank with it. You can crush a single clove of garlic & soak their food in it.

Since Photobucket changed their policies (looking for $$$ to link photos), I can't link my photos either. Try a different format. I am thinking maybe your decor isn't complex enough to keep them interested, which could cause glass-surfing.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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LEROUXA
Puffer Fry
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am
Location (country): Canada, Alberta

Re: Need some help plz

Post by LEROUXA »

Hmm ok. Maybe I’ll add more rocks so they have things to move around
They are finally eating - sorta. Blood worms one at a time and Slowly so that’s ok for now. And I thought to try to entice them so put in 3 small guppies that were not there this am — Water change tomorrow and adding back some - so hopefully slowly keeps getting better.

Thanks again for everything !!!
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