dp breeding set up

[hooligan]

well after a recent fail with a project i found myself with an empty 30g tank.



well not quite empty but in need of tenants.

so i did some research and started about playing with the tank with the purpose of trying to breed DP.

a bit of a move around and a deal struck with a LFS that i regularly supply with surplus fish i breed, i got it ready to accept a group of DP.



now i made sure i had middle ground on all the parameter and on wednesday i got the call that my DP had arrived. they ordered me 12 in total although as always a couple look a bit skinny and worse for wear so will see how they go.





well this was them earlier today, they have found the feeding spot and have seem them eating blood worm, brine shrimp, prawn and micro fornia in the tank. there is still a few that are not quite right but will see how they get on over the next week or so. I have a good mix of males and females, set up at least 8 spots of moss throughout the tank and loads of nooks and grannys for them to move around.

here is a quick video of them today. please ignore the background sound my daughter was youtubing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLlDj69zypk

[Pufferpunk]

Nice, complex decor!
My very 1st thought when I saw your tank though is: How will you keep that substrate clean?

[hooligan]

thats the clever bit hahaha

so it looks like a lot of deep mix substrate, but the tank was originally set up for cockatoo cichlids. its actually mostly 3/4" slate with pockets of deep substrate for the plants so its very easy to clean. i have used this type of set up in a couple of tanks over the years and it helps to control plants from taking over.

here are some pics from the original set up.











here is my south american tank with a similar set up, the front is all slate base with two large area for plants, this is my Amazon puffers new home. its an ex coral display tank so quite shallow at only 12" but total is 55g.



how it looks after a year, all naturally lit through the window.

[Pufferpunk]

I see that now, thanks for the explanation. Can you lift the slate to clean under it then?

[hooligan]

it can be lifted but that is a PITA, but there are places where you can push 6mm air line under to make sure no voids are missed. I'll have to see how it goes with the puffers, as i think it will be more food waste than poop that will be the issue. there are plenty of snails in there that will take care of that.

currently check the parameters every two days, the tank is normally good for water changes every week (25%) but my plan is to do more so probably 50% weekly and see how they fare. the tank is actually 10years old and the only thing that has been replaced is the heater this year and the light bulb when needed, oh and filter media every few years, so very mature lol

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, puffers are messy eaters!

Just a heads up--they like to breed in Java moss.

[hooligan]

Yes, puffers are messy eaters!

Just a heads up--they like to breed in Java moss.

i currently got about 6-8 different small patches tied to rocks and DW do you think this is enough or should i add a clump and let it float around??

[Pufferpunk]

That should do. Guess I didn't see them.

[TOPuffers]

Your tank looks wonderful and exciting for puffers to explore and hide in!

Excited to learn how this project goes for you, as we have 3 DPs too

[hooligan]

ok well after a week, i have lost one. it was one of the weaker ones so was sort of expected. there is still at least two that still not putting weight on but i'm waiting on some stuff to worm them. but the rest seem to be feeding well but my judging of how much leave a lot to be desired so overfeeding is a risk hahaha.

currently feeding once every two days and water changes are being done every 3 days at 20%.

the majority are doing well but i looks like i'm male heavy which ill will start to sell on once i have wormed them and got them all healthy. then i'll look to get a few more females. i would like to build the group back up to around 8-9 with a couple of males and at least a good group of 5-6 females. but that said some of the males may turn out to be females as they are still small and not showing strips yet.

i have seem some chasing around the central bit of driftwood but its only around feeding time after that they all seem to go back to their areas/ territories and settle down with the occasional chase as some (possibly females ) move around the tank investigating.

one thing that stands out is there is none of the up and down the glass so they must be enjoying it.

[pollypuff]

Am I reading correctly that you have 12 dp's in a 30 gallon? That seems too many.

[hooligan]

had, 12 yes but as with any bulk buy there is now a few that have departed.

i can see the argument for not putting 12 in a 30g tank it seems a lot, but if i had 20 guppys in there it would be fine or a pair of angels... at 1.5cm currently the 12 have more tank space comparable to my dovii pair with the male at around 12" in a 180G. And tbh if it overcrowded with 12 then I'm selling up because it's hard to spot them now with all they require.

my filter system is fine and been adequate for a group of young snakeheads, i have breed cichlids in it and also raised angels in there, and the tank has not been shut down in 10 years so very mature. having read a mountain of info on breeding these a lot of people have recommended a 30g as the perfect size for a group of 8-9 and good results on the breeding. but like all projects we have to buy more than we plan on keeping long term to get the numbers/ sexes and healthy individuals to get going.

but dont worry the plan is to thin them out to a group of 2-3 males and maybe 6 females in the end. so this number is not long term.

[pollypuff]

oh, your level of care isn't an issue and 12 of them is not overcrowding in a biological sense, I was more concerned about aggression? But then again I've never bred DPs (just rainbows and corys) so what do I know lol.

[bertie 83]

Getting them down to around 9 is a good idea. You can't compare puffers to guppies or Angels. These guys are big poopers and messy eaters.

[hooligan]

oh, your level of care isn't an issue and 12 of them is not overcrowding in a biological sense, I was more concerned about aggression? But then again I've never bred DPs (just rainbows and corys) so what do I know lol.

my reply probably came off a little harsh, it wasn't meant too. from what i have read the male occupy an area of around 6" squared as a territory, and this is what i have seen, well more so each has picks a piece of tank furniture and claimed it as its owns, this is a large rock, driftwood or even a plant, there is one or two nomad males (the smaller ones ) and they float around filling in the gaps. the females tend to hang out in the floating plants in the mid section most of the time, then they do like a sweep of the tanks have a nosy around then go back. the only time this changes is feeding time when they all come up to the floating feeder. there is a little bit of chasing when a males does the rounds of his area but no real fighting at the moment. I'm going to be adding 5-6 more small bits of driftwood (currently soaking in a bucket) in the next couple of days with more moss and fern tied, this is to make the height more useable and form some new areas.

Getting them down to around 9 is a good idea. You can't compare puffers to guppies or Angels. These guys are big poopers and messy eaters.

i have seen this again and again but i would like to know comparable to what???, if you have a community tank of 12+ fish then yeah i'll agree they are messy, but bristlenose plec for example they are messy and poop no stop. compared to some of the larger cichlids i would say puffers aren't all that messy, and compared to my snakeheads group after a feeding frenzy they are positively OCD on tidiness. also worth noting snakeshead hate WC, but love feeding and eat a lot of the same foods as the puffers. my SH only get a 20-30% WC once a month in a planted tank, feeding for these is every 3 days (DP every 2 also in planted tank 20% wc every 3 days) only major difference here is the SH breath air so water quality isn't such an issue, but it still never climbs high. currently the SH are in a 90G tall and are around 6" each 5 total.

please don't take this as me arguing the system, im no expert, but at the same time this was not an impulsive purchase. I have been keeping fish now for close to 15 years, and although puffers are a new fish to me but the care and maintenance is no more than many other fish, and no fish should be subjected to the stress of bad water quality or aggression from other tank mates. that said sometime to get something to breed we have to use their natural breeding habit of competition to get results, this tank was setup to breed these fish perfect water quality is number one, but the number of males has to be up to get the females to choose a mate. this is what i have read but also what i have seen with many other fish, for example to get a stubborn betta to breed you may have to put a number of females in, but also placing another male in a clear tank next to the one you want to breed can kick in the natural breeding response, with cichlids we generally give them a number when young so they can pick their mate. sometimes having a second male in a tank can spur on a breeding.