Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

[TheStig]

I never have any luck with plants. I managed to kill my husband's favourite mature aloe vera, and a little cactus. I am the Jonah of the plant world.

I currently have fake and live plants in my 10 gallon, plus 2 DPs & 1 Amano shrimp. Live ones include willow moss (seems OK, bits of brown that I remove here and there, but still mostly green), Anacharis (it's starting to melt, turn yellow & brown ) and Scarlet Temple (the LFS guy assured me it was a hardy, low-light plant... after researching it, not so sure; some of the leaves are turning brown-black!). Not feeling too clever, especially since the Anacharis is supposed to be an, and I quote "impossible to kill", plant.

Not sure if this info will help, but the tank is under a skylight & I also use an avian full-spectrum lamp. The temp is 78F. NH3 + NO2 = 0, NO3 = 10 ppm, pH = 7.6. I tested it today, using the API master kit. I do 50% WC once a week, and gravel vac the entire tank. I have gravel substrate. I had the willow moss for about a month, and I purchased the anacharis and scarlet temple last week. Both these plants were healthy and sturdy when I got them. I did the WC a couple of days after I bought them.

I was told these plants didn't need any special care, like dirt, ferts and CO2, or even a lot of light. Today, I am going to pick up a bottle of Seachem Flourish to see if I can perk these guys up.

Do you know what is happening to my plants? Too much light? Not enough nutrients? Did I buy the wrong plants?

I would like to keep my tank simple as far as plant care go, so any suggestions are welcome. I didn't buy the Anubias cos they looked sad, and I can't seem to source Java Fern or Moss in my area, which includes my LFS, PetCo and PetSmart. Gah.

Thanks.

[Hillehaus]

Hmmm, what kind of gravel is it? Regular Quartz? Most plants you listed pull nutrients from their roots, not necessarily the water column.

In my tank, which I admit I have let go to hell since it is a snail jail now, I have a layer of EcoComplete capped by a layer of sand:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002DH0Q ... ref=plSrch

From what I understand, this gives the a at something to root into and draw in minerals. In fact, if you try to pull a plant rooted in this substrate or a similar one, you will pull what seems like half the gravel out because the roots are so firmly bound.

That is the only thing that really really sticks out to me. With the parameters you listed, things should Definately grow otherwise. So, I'm not going to suggest you stop gravel vaccing, because it is good tank maintenance, but you are removing nutrients when you do that. A little fish poo won't hurt a well planted tank's water quality. Side note: Brown thumbs are real. I've yet to find a flower or veggie I haven't managed to kill.

Good luck! Don't give up!

[Welch4]

Well I can send you java moss if you pay for shipping. +1 to the substrate comment but it shouldn't be that crucial. Could you post more details about the tank size and light model #.

[TheStig]

Hi Hillehaus,

It is Topfin aquarium gravel that looks like little pebbles. You can see it in the picture below.

I also forgot to add that the Scarlet Temple has roots growing from the stems, so I put it in a wee terra cotta pot so I can move it safely when I gravel vac.


Also, the day after I got the Anacharis, it started shooting roots from the stems too. It was a big bunch, so I wedged them in in my driftwood. Today, I took them out, separated the plants into smaller bunches of 2s & 3s, looped them loosely with thread & wedged them around driftwood, rock and empty terra cotta pot.

Should I just gravel vac half the tank w/ each WC then? I hate to speak ill of them, but despite their size, my 2 DPs drum up a lot of mess. I even feed them 1 bloodworm at a time (w/ a turkey baster) and try to remove empty snail shells to minimize waste. If I do half the tank, do I still add Seachem Flourish?

Thanks for the kind words and advice.

Hi Welch4,

Thank you kindly for the offer! I will get in touch with you re: Java Moss.

My tank is a rectangular 10 gallon from PetCo (approx 20 x 12 x 10).

The light I have is a Zoo Med AvianSun 5.0 fluorescent bulb. It is about 2.5 feet above the tank. I have no idea about lighting. Fishkeeping is such a steep learning curve! But here is the product info:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=24615

I also should add the tank is below a skylight so it gets quite a bit of sun too, especially mid-morning to early afternoon.

Thanks for your help!

[Iliveinazoo]

You have over 2WP(US)G so medium to high lighting and you appear to carry out large thorough water changes which makes me think that you aren't fertilising your plants enough, add an aquatic plant fertiliser (liquid or dry powders) with NPK and trace elements and you should be fine. A carbon source would increase the plant mass quicker but probably isn't necessary with that level of light.

[Hillehaus]

Also, remember that the plants "feed" on nitrates in the water column and fish waste in the substrate. There needs to be some sort of food for the plants to grow (as Iliveinazoo said, this could definitely be fertilizer instead of waste). Half vac'ing may not be a bad idea. It sounds like your water is in pristine condition and could use a little slacking off on the cleaning*. I prefer a slightly "dirty" tank for my planted aquariums however.

If you want your plants to really take off to a point where you are getting lush growth, carpeting plants, potential flowering, and you are pruning the underwater jungle on a weekly basis: consider carbon. DIY or otherwise. Seachem Flourish Excel is a good easy starting point for a carbon source.


*Disclaimer: Continue to monitor...slacking off doesn't mean let it go to hell.

[Welch4]

*Disclaimer: Continue to monitor...slacking off doesn't mean let it go to hell.

LMFAO. I'm tempted to set this a my sig.

[Hillehaus]

Feel free. It is a lesson I wish I followed in all my tanks. My snail jail is a neglected jungle. It is embarrassing.

[TheStig]

Thanks for the suggestions. I bought Seachem flourish and added it to my tank on Sunday, when I did my WC.

Hillehaus, I know you said a little poo doesn't hurt and I totally understand the validity of your point, but my eye started to twitch when I gravel-vac just half the tank. Tried to resist, failed and ended up vac-ing the entire tank. I will do 2/3 this weekend, and slowly work up to half.

I read that Anacharis don't do will with CO2, and those who had used Flourish Excel saw them wither and goo away.

But I have good news and sad news.

Good news is, although the mature leaves of the Anacharis are still melting, I see new growth on the tops. The stems are healthy and green, with roots growing. Also, I see new growth on my willow moss.

But, now my Scarlet Temple leaves are turning yellow! I do notice little leaves popping out along the stem, as well as new growth on the top. The roots are really growing too. Also the red has gone, so I guess I should get Seachem Iron? I read somewhere that the red wasn't from iron but rather to protect the leaves from burning from the light, so I am guess it works like melanin? I would like to hear some feedback.

Plants are so hard to understand. So envious of those who have beautiful planted tanks. I just want a few live plants to complement my fake ones in mine, and I can barely convince them to hang on.

ps: I did another small dose of Flourish today again, after feeling dejected about the yellow leaves. Tested my water yesterday, and it read 0/0/10.

[Hillehaus]

I completely understand! Something's bother me to crazyness, others I can completely ignore.

[Iliveinazoo]

Thanks for the suggestions. I bought Seachem flourish and added it to my tank on Sunday, when I did my WC.

Hillehaus, I know you said a little poo doesn't hurt and I totally understand the validity of your point, but my eye started to twitch when I gravel-vac just half the tank. Tried to resist, failed and ended up vac-ing the entire tank. I will do 2/3 this weekend, and slowly work up to half.

I read that Anacharis don't do will with CO2, and those who had used Flourish Excel saw them wither and goo away.

But I have good news and sad news.

Good news is, although the mature leaves of the Anacharis are still melting, I see new growth on the tops. The stems are healthy and green, with roots growing. Also, I see new growth on my willow moss.

But, now my Scarlet Temple leaves are turning yellow! I do notice little leaves popping out along the stem, as well as new growth on the top. The roots are really growing too. Also the red has gone, so I guess I should get Seachem Iron? I read somewhere that the red wasn't from iron but rather to protect the leaves from burning from the light, so I am guess it works like melanin? I would like to hear some feedback.

Plants are so hard to understand. So envious of those who have beautiful planted tanks. I just want a few live plants to complement my fake ones in mine, and I can barely convince them to hang on.

ps: I did another small dose of Flourish today again, after feeling dejected about the yellow leaves. Tested my water yesterday, and it read 0/0/10.

You can normally only maintain a good red with high light, high CO2 (injection) and high level of ferts.

As you have found out some plants will not do well with liquid carbon products, Vallis being one example, you could try leaner dosing of the carbon but you may not be able to use it if you want to keep the plant. The reason that most plants die away is due to a lack of fertilisation though; higher light and higher Co2 will drive the plants needs for extra ferts. the leaves that yellow or brown will die away and won't recover so you are better off trimming these off so that the plant can work on making new healthier leaves instead.

[TheStig]

I took your advice, and removed the yellowed and yellowing leaves. I also snipped off the bottom, a node above where the stem had turned brown.

Went back to my LFS to pick up Seachem Potassium, and found out I had identified the plant wrongly. It isn't a Scarlet Temple. It is a Ludwigia. Oops. I forgot to ask what kind it was when I bought them, cos all I wanted was a low light, low maintenance plant and that was pointed out to me. So, after some quick research when I got home, I may return it for Seachem Iron instead. The LFS guy did tell me after I described how my plant look that it doesn't sound like a Potassium problem but it wouldn't hurt adding it to my tank.

The Ludwigia they had in their tank, same batch as I got from 2 weeks ago, are so healthy. I asked if they are doing anything special, and nope - they are kept in low light, no CO2, no ferts, in gravel substrate... in a tank with Anglefish and Gouramis.

So, I may remove the avian lamp that I currently use. It was about a foot away from my tank, then I moved it about 2 feet above yesterday.

Update: Anacharis is definitely growing new leaves up top and the melting has slowed down / stopped. Moss also sprouting new growth.

[Iliveinazoo]

Don't be afraid to add nitrate, phosphate and potassium to your aquarium though if you still experience deficiencies.

[hadla]

I've never had luck with anacharis... Well any stem plant... I hate stem plants!

You can try anubias, the best low light plant in my opinion.

[TheStig]

I just about had it with aquatic plants. I am so close to abandoning ship. Maybe I'll hop into Hadla's first, and dabble with non-stems. Is Ludwigia considered a stem plant? Cos I hate that thing!

So, I picked up Potassium and Iron few days ago, to go with my Flourish. The stupid Ludwigia (all 5 of them) started sprouting off-shoots all along the stem, and the baby leaves are growing & looking good, with a reddish tinge. No more yellowing either, but maybe cos there are no more mature leaves left to yellow. Then, the top leaves started dying! Just the top ones started browning at the tips + edges, and slowly spreads. I snipped the entire top off, a couple of nodes below. Stems are healthy, roots are everywhere. It's like playing with my emotions, or something. I hate it but I can't bear to get rid of it cos it has baby leaves.

This Ludwigia is probably the baldest plant I know. So much for breaking up the line of sight for my puffers, this one. Honestly, I spend more time staring at this stupid plant than my Puffers.

I think it's screwing up my water too. Every since I brought this plant home, I have been battling with stubborn surface film that traps bubbles. The water tension is high, even though I have surface agitation from my HOB filter.

I do a 50% WC once a week + gravel vac. There is no excess food floating around cos I feed my fish 1 worm at a time. I always test my water mid-week, and it consistently shows 0 / 0 / 5 - 10ppm. Last week, I noticed when I scoop the surface water out (getting rid of bubbles and film), I noticed the water is a little discoloured, like an incredibly faint tint of yellow, and the only reason I can see it is because I use a white plastic container. One can't tell just looking at my tank. So this weekend, when I did my WC, I did a 70% WC, gravel-vac 3/4 of my tank, and dunked-rinse my plants, rocks, driftwood and terra cotta pots in RO water. Swished the filter media in tank water, and rinsed the filter body well... The next day, that film is back.

I think I am just going see if my LFS wants that stupid Ludwigia back. I just want low low low care plants that can even survive a poo sludge, not that I will ever let my tank get that way. But you get my drift.