New Dwarf Puffer (QUESTIONS)

[Quaid]

No more risk of contaminants such as soap/lotion than there has ever been with me. There has been no sprays (paint or hair or anything). I wash my hands for good hiegene, but I rinse my hands also...and this has never caused a problem before.

Would this affect only puffers though? What I am dealing with seems to be only the puffers. The krill was never thawed, until the point of use. I've just throw the rest of it away to be sure.

I thought the names were good also. It was a team effort between my gf and I. Named after the day they were purchased, and in french because they ate snails. Some debate exists over whether to terminate in an i or y.

[Phaedrus]

any contamination would effect all fish equally i would assume, unless the puffers are either specially susceptable, or in a weakened state to begin with.

[Quaid]

Lundy was dead this morning in the QT tank.

I would doubly like to know what happened now.

Water param's in 65g this morning:
nitrite 1ppm
nitrate 2ppm
ammonia 0ppm
ph 8

in the QT 15g:
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 0ppm
ammonia 0ppm
ph 8


List of suspects:
water contaminant that I can't measure (copper? there has been city plumbing work as part of a neighborhood upgrade)
poisonous food (bad krill? I actually feel this is the most likely just based on the timing and other facts, but I'm not an expert)
garlic (miss applied by adding a crushed clove to the filter rather than smearing on the food).


If anyone has further insight, please drop your 2 cents.

[RTR]

No clue as to the actual cause of the deaths, especially when the QT looks clean. But a side question on the 65 - why does it show positive nitrite? Established tanks should never show any ammonia or nitrite.

Food is cheap, if there is any question, throw it out.

During periods of line work, our local utility doubles or triples the disinfectant in the supply. Do you have chlorine/ammonia tests to confirm that your replacement water is really safe to use?

Puffers are scaleless fish, and as such are more sensitive tp water problems than many "normal" (scaled) fish - but they are far from the only scaleless fish common in captivity - loaches, many cats, etc.

[Phaedrus]

I've noticed recently that my tap water actually has an odour of chlorine to it, likely due to the city dealing with spring run off. There have been a lot of floods up river and in surrounding areas. Lots of things get washed into the river, and increased currents stir things up a lot more. To compensate I've doubled my dose of dechlorinator. If they've been doing work in your area that may be the case as well. They may have also dislodged some sediments from copper pipes or something that could have been poisonous.

Without a skilled autopsy, there is not likely any way to determine what actually killed them.

What is wrong in the 65g that there would be nitrite? Perhaps whatever killed the fish also managed to damage the bacterial culture as well.

[Quaid]

The 65gal is a brand new tank, not established. It is exclusively using filter material from mature tanks, which I was told would 'silent cycle' the tank. It had a resident white cloud and the 4 oto's for three days before the puffers. I believe the nitrite values are resulting from a mini cycle of some sort, getting the bacteria colonies up to operating populations. It is possible that whatever killed the puffers damaged the bacteria. From the fully cycled filter media I did not expect to see any readable nitrite values.

I do not have a Chlorine specific test, and I also DIY treat the water with sodium thiosulfate. [EDIT] I checked with my local utility, and they still use chlorine, not chloramine. Also, levels have been maintained at 1.2ppm, apparently with very little fluctuation [ / EDIT] I double checked my DIY recipe and it is correct. I will check with the local water supply about increased treatment. My NH4 tests have consistantly produced 0's. I plan on getting my water double checked/tested at a LFS, but this won't happen until Monday because of my exam schedule.

I can get a fish autopsy done in Guelph Ontario, not far from here. However, I am a student on a tight budget and I do not think is financially viable. That and I already buried the fish in the backyard.

I appreciate you taking the time to read this, even though you might not have answers for me. It is frustrating not knowing what caused this, or whether subsequent puffers would succumb to the same fate. If I don't find a definitive answer, I don't think I can morally justify keeping any more puffers for the time being.

[Phaedrus]

The problem with using filter material from an established tank is that by the time enough ammonia is converted to nitrite, the nitrite bacteria will have died off slightly, so a nitrite spike will occur until they can reform. So a mini-cycle is inevitable. The nitrites may have been high enough at one point to harm them.

Sometimes there is no way to know what killed the fish. I lost my first puffer without warning with no overt signs.

[RTR]

I used "borrowed/stolen" filter material from established tanks, or most often, complete filters. I have never had any detectable nitrite from doing so, but I do also routinely ammonia challenge the "new" filter setup before I add fish. Mature filter media should have sufficient quantities/colony size of both ammonia-oxidizing and nitrite-oxidizing bacteria. If it does not you are either fishless or fishy cycling for both sets of bacteria.

[Phaedrus]

When I started the 5 gallon for a single dwarf puffer I used media from an existing tank. I think his bio-load was so small that by the time sufficient nitrite built-up from food and waste decomp, the bacteria responsible for nitrite transformation had been sufficiently starved that they had a large die off. I had a pretty big nitrite spike for a couple days that I kept under control with water changes. Thinking back, I probably should have brought over some more fresh media to handle it.

[Quaid]

After speaking to another aquarist in my town, it could have been something in the water. He had 3 cyprichromis leptosoma die with his last water change. No idea as to what the cause was, with no reports from the water company.

[Toadman Z]

Sorry to hear about your loss!
It's too bad that water companies don't think of how changing the composition might affect people. I see it in both this hobby and my other, homebrewing.

[Roman]

edit: sorry to hear about the loss :-\