Ya didn't really want to type that subject. But its true. We have a 10" Porcupine Puffer we have had for 7 years. A couple of days ago he was showing signs of constipation. Yesterday it became obvious why. He is trying to pass what appears to be an Astrea shell. It is not coming all the way out, it is stuck. I can see the hole in the shell so I grabbed it with a pair of large aquarium tweezers. I didn't pull but of course he did. It still wouldn't come out and I let go.
So I am wondering what to do next. I am thinking epsom salt is not going to do much at this point but I'm not sure. I can't let let him die from this when I can actually see the shell. I don't want to sedate and cut him but I guess I can if I have to. I have worked with Kelly in the past (2008) with this puffer with Krill induced lockjaw. So I have used MS222 to tube feed him. After the first time this puffer allowed me to tube feed him without sedation, he is quite docile. I have also done some light stitching on dogs that ripped their bellies open, So I am willing to try to stitch an incision. I am hoping there is another solution though as I would definitely need advice on where to make an incision and how to stitch it back up.
What advice do you all have? How many days should I wait until moving to the next step.
Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
I think under sedation, you might be able to crush the shell with pliers?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Thank you Pufferpunk for such a quick reply! I'm Puffy's mom (jtesdall's wife). We will certainly give your idea a try. I can't believe neither of us thought of that. Another question: How long is MS222's shelf life? We have some, but can't find any expiration date on it. We know it's from 2008 though, so we're wondering if it's too old to be effective. He was extremely sensitive to it last time, so what would you recommend as a minimum starting dose? As Joel said, he is very calm and docile, used to being handled etc., but this is obviously very painful. Thanks again for the great idea.
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hadla
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Ow 
poor little puff, hope everything goes well!
poor little puff, hope everything goes well!Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Mine's about that old & still works.How long is MS222's shelf life? We have some, but can't find any expiration date on it. We know it's from 2008 though, so we're wondering if it's too old to be effective.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Yes Pufferpunk, thanks for the reply. Crushing the shell is a great idea. However, after looking at it this morning only the leading edge and hole of the shell is protruding. The larger part of the shell is inside. I think if I crush the part that is visible, the rest will stay inside or worse go back in. To crush that part I would have to grab puffies anus around the shell and that would be bad. I love the idea but I am not seeing the outcome as good right now.
Unfortunately, as I think about this, it seems an incision will have to be made to extract the shell. Any further ideas or how I can crush the large part of the shell inside him would be great. Still don't want to cut on him.
Unfortunately, as I think about this, it seems an incision will have to be made to extract the shell. Any further ideas or how I can crush the large part of the shell inside him would be great. Still don't want to cut on him.
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
What about trying to cut it in 1/2 with a wire cutting tool?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
What are you thinking for wire cutters? The pliers with a pointed cutting edge I call dykes? I think that would still break inside him. Do you think it might crack all the way up inside him so I could pull each piece out? I could test the theory on another astrea shell I guess. If I do that I would think I should be prepared to make an incision in case it goes bad. I am not sure if it would be best to make an incision top, bottom or on the side. I don't know where the blood vessels are. And if I have to stitch the outside skin that would be easy enough but if I have to stitch inside I would be lost.
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
If you can crush/crack/compromise the shell he may be able to pass whatever you cannot easily remove by himself.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
That's what I'm thinking.it might crack all the way up inside him so I could pull each piece out?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
IT'S OUT! Yippee! and Puffy is doing a happy dance! Thank you all for the ideas & support!
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hadla
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
glad to hear that!Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Well... are ya gonna keep us all guessing how this was accomplished??? 
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Nothing exciting here except that Puffy is doing very well once again. It finally came out on its own. I didn't think it was going to (obviously) but thank god it did. I am so glad we didn't have to sedate or operate. Hopefully he will never do this again.
Thanks for your help. Although I am very happy we didn't have to use it. Tonight was going to be epsom salt night and tomorrow was get it out anyway we could night.
Thanks for your help. Although I am very happy we didn't have to use it. Tonight was going to be epsom salt night and tomorrow was get it out anyway we could night.
Re: Porc Puffer with Shell stuck in Anus
Glad to read it's out, was following with interest. But how did you manage it?