Water Cycle Advise From Aqua Shop

[edison]

Hi Guys,

I am living in Singapore (tap water contains chlorine). I consulted an aquarium shop assistant about water cycle, what I am told is to collect a pail of water from my tap and leave it somewhere for 2 days to allow the chlorine to subside, then I may straight away use the water for my puffer fish. This theory contradicts greatly with all the "water cycle strategies" i read online. Strangely, I followed the instruction of the shop assistant and had my puffer fish living for the past 3 months. Right now, I always do a 30% water change or 50% water change for my humpback puffers. I have attempted a 100% water change for GSP 2 times using the above method and they are still living fine.

My question is, what is happening here? I did not go through the water cycle before introducing my puffers into the water and they lived. Is it due to the cleansed water running through my tap?

Thanks in advance!

[Pufferpunk]

You are definitely introducing your puffers into uncycled systems. They may have but could very possible done serious, permanent damage to themselves, causing much shorter lifespans.
Here is some reading for you. You may want to print these articles for your LFS:

library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/
library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/
library/water-filtration/aquariummicrobespart1/
library/water-filtration/aquariummicrobespart2/

[Iliveinazoo]

I got similar advice from an LFS when I started keeping fish, I was told to fill my tank with tap water and leave it running for a month to cycle. After a month I tested the water and ammonia, nitrite and nitrtate readings were all zero so I added the fish and funnily enough the ammonia level shot up and started the cycle, the damage was done and 3 weeks later my fish died. With no ammonia source to begin with there wasn't any food source for the nitrification bacteria to feed on and therefore nothing to deal with the fish waste when it came.

[Fish Man]

The LFS you spoke to should not have advised what they said, IMHO. Yes, Chlorine has a very short half-life and you would find it hard to detect in water that had been exposed to air for any longer period than 48 hours. However, most 'tap water supplies' will contain chloramine (an ammonia and chlorine compound)... Chloramine has a half-life of about 300,000 years or something stupid, therefore WILL BE THERE even if you leave the tap water outside or whatever. They do this so that domestic tap water exposed to air will not incur significant bacteria growth. Tap water will contain many other heavy metals also which can be harmful for fish.

Rule of thumb...

Do you use tap water in your tank?
If so, you need to 'neutralise' the tap water with a product normally labelled like 'tap chlorine remover' or 'tap-safe'. I've never ever not seen this in a fish shop. Sodium thiosulphate will do the same thing, it usually comes crystallised... I can tell you how to dose that if that's all you find. Not sure what's available in Singapore?

Tap water + Chlorine/Chloramine remover = Happy Fish

[Pufferpunk]

Most all of us use Prime to condition our tap water.

[Fish Man]

Most all of us use Prime to condition our tap water.

This is what I also recommend.

[RTR]

It is an unfortunate fact that many LFS employees in fact know almost nothing about keeping fish alive and healthy long term.

First off, it is not the water that requires "conditioning", it is at best the filters, or the substrate, or the surfaces in the tank (such as rocks or other decor). But expecting such employees to also be biologists, ecologists, biochemists, and other such with appropriate biological study in their background is highly unrealistic. The so-called "cycle" bacteria are obligate attached forms which can only oxidize ammonia to to nitrite and others oxidizing from nitrite to nitrate, which is much less toxic. Nitrate is either used by plants or algae as a nutrient, or is removed (diluted) by routine water changes.

To have fully conditioned tanks without the appropriate bacterial support without traditional conditioning and relatively high percentage water partials requires very highly specialized set-ups which may be beyond what most casual hobbyists are willing to supply. Such set-up are possible, but are more complex (and thus expensive) than simple tanks with single filters. Very few LFS employees will ever have seen or even heard of such systems, much less have sufficient knowledge to set and operate such complex systems.

The hobbyist's choices are either simple system with relative high upkeep, or complex systems with much lower upkeep. Full information on either system is not often available at LFS, and almost never at chain stores.

FWIW, HTH

[Myaj]

Are you referring to a tank newly set up or an established tank and how you do water changes?

The chlorine in your water can be uncomfortable to your fish and can also damage or kill off part of your good bacteria. By doing a water change with chlorinated water, you risk those problems. Will it crash your tank and kill your fish, maybe, maybe not, but it is still not a good idea.

Letting the water sit for two days will allow the chlorine to dissipate, making the water safe to use for a water change. He's right there, as long as your water supply is only treated with chlorine and not chloromines (which are used BECAUSE they last longer). But just letting a bucket sit out certainly won't establish a bacterial cycle and make it safe for starting up a brand new tank.

Most people don't want buckets of water sitting around waiting for chlorine to go away, so they use a dechlorinator like Prime or Amquel, etc to treat and use it right away for water changes.

[RTR]

The damage caused by chlorine or chloramines is chemical burning of the gill filaments. The gill filaments are the fish equivalent of our lungs, the pass oxygen through to the blood. after such burning, the filaments will be thickened and thus less effective to totally ineffective at providing O2 to the fish. Some replacement and recovery is possible over time if the initial damage is not too great, but will never again be as effective as the gills were prior to the injury. The fish may become respiratory cripples, or may die in the acute phase of the injury.

Side note: So-called "slime coat enhancers" can have serious negative effects on gill-damaged fish. They may effectively thicken the gill filaments, reducing O2 transport to the fish's bloodstream. Use with caution on previously damaged fish.

HTH

[edison]

Thanks guys! Thanks for the valuable knowledge shared. May I also inquire further questions.

1) I realized my humpback putters produces quite a lot of waste. I'm thinking whether should I use sand gravel when I got my new tank. Right now my poor puffers have to be kept in a rather small tank, I usually scoop up the waste myself everyday. When I finally get my big tank and cannister, would the gravel traps more waste and cause the water to be in poorer condition?

2) any test kit recommendation as well as a reference website on how to interpret the readings of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

[Pufferpunk]

Get the API Test Kit.

[Pufferpunk]

Get the API Test Kit.

[RTR]

Since humpbacks do not eat (and poop) as often as many other more active puffers do, spot vacuuming is not a big deal. I recommend it whenever possible/practical. The choice of sand versus gravel is purely personal. The care of each is slightly different but roughly equivalent to me - I'd say it is personal choice.