Mappa Puffer - looking for advice on burping?

[Linda C.]

I am clownfish breeder and I'm looking for advice to help a 8-9" mappa puffer that I saw while I was making a delivery. I'm attaching a photo to show it's position, which is nose down/tail up.

The staff asked for help with this fish. They have been attempting to 'burp' the puffer but the they said the fish keeps puffing up while they are trying to do it. Is that what needs to be done to help the puffer? if so, how is it recommended to do it?

I'm looking for any advice on how to treat this puffer. I have Finquel available if that is necessary to use to sedate the fish while working with it.

The puffer is not eating prepared foods for them at all. Late last night I brought up some live fish from the fish I have that are not marketable. (I try to find homes or uses for the clowns that would be culled). They put 3 in the puffers tank but I haven't heard yet if the puffer ate yet. I think the puffer is in a 40 breeder so I mentioned the idea of putting in some eggcrate prior to feeding to make the area smaller to give the puffer an easier chance of getting to a fish.

Thank you in advance for your time and advice for this Mappa. We appreciate it very much.

[Linda C.]

In the past few days they tried holding the puffer face down in the water and massaged him.(EDIT: The fish was held FACE UP) He inflates each time while they are doing this. They said it's also very had to keep hold of the puffer.

I chatted with Jeni on FB for a bit and she suggested shaking the puffer. She linked me to library/hospital/help-my-puffer-is-air-filled/ and my question is are there any photos/videos on anyone doing this so we can model the proceedure better?

While searching on this forum I see mention of putting the fish in a smaller container and putting it at the bottom of the tank. The next time the fish can be work on to expel the air is tomorrow. Should I see if someone at the store can put it in a smaller container today or should is the fish better floating like it is currently?

[Pufferpunk]

You need to hold the puffer face UP! It won't release the air thru it's butt, only it's mouth.

[FishFan]

You need to hold the puffer face UP! It won't release the air thru it's butt, only it's mouth.

PP is right.

We've never had a puffer need this procedure, probably because we never transfer puffers with a net, but instead use a glass bowel (smaller fish) or coax them into a plastic bag. Here is a white paper on puffer puffing physiology.

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/EEB/br ... jmorph.pdf

The goal in burping a puffer is the same as burping a baby, and as with a baby be as gentle as possible. Never shake a baby or a puffer. Hold the puffer mouth up. If it puffs, this will help the processes. The puffer, stomach includes multiple levels of folding. If they deflate with air inside it may become trapped in the collapsing folds. This is likely what makes it hard for the fish to expel the air.

Hold the puffer mouth up. If it inflates it will help the process. The goal will be for the air bubble to work its way up and out. This can't happen until deflation begins.

Good luck.

[Linda C.]

You need to hold the puffer face UP! It won't release the air thru it's butt, only it's mouth.

oops! my bad. yes, the previous attempt to rid the air were done face up.

Also, a staff member wanted me to mention that there were no nets were used when placing the puffer in the tank.

Another attempt is planned for tomorrow. I will post an update after I get back home.

[Pufferpunk]

I have used the shaking method with success.

[FishFan]

I have used the shaking method with success.

I guess I was wrong on this. I was half kidding, so if it saves the fish I guess I'd shake too.

[Pufferpunk]

Yes--I told her, at this point, try anything, because if she doesn't get the air out soon, it's gonna die.

[Puffer Queen]

With this nigropunctatus mealgris, I would submerge deeply with face up, while inflated - I would have a second pair of hands massage while the other holds upright. Sedation may help this process. Over the last two decades, I have had to needle a few that persisted after multiple attempts or ones that were at the hands of others to avoid death.

Hope this problem has resolved.

Best of luck.

[Pufferpunk]

Hey Kelly, thanks so much for responding! I thought we lost you here.

[Puffer Queen]

No still kicking - juggling many things and still working a full time job.

I can't spend the time browsing the forums but don't mind helping when someone sends me a request and I have time.

Hope all is going well for you!

[Linda C.]

The puffer is still alive but we were unable to massage/shake the trapped air out. (we filmed our last attempt but the video is 18 mins long and I'm not sure how to edit it down yet). The only relief we were able to give the puffer was that it took a big poop during the shaking.

Since massaging has been tried for at least a week+ (and then massage/shaking) hasn't worked a needle and syringe is going to be the next step to expel the air.


Kelly, can you describe your procedure as best possible?

I really appreciate everyone’s time and effort for this fish.


- Linda

[Pufferpunk]

I'm praying for the fella. Has it been able to eat at all?

[Linda C.]

It's late but I wanted to try to make a post. Sorry in advance if it's choppy or confusing.

The fish hasn't eaten for 3 weeks ago and is housed at a lfs with excellent staff. I brought up some of my clowns that would be canidates to be culled to try to entice the puffer to eat. The puffer shows interest but is unable to get to them. We tried holding the clown to feed the puffer but it doesn't work. The trip for me is about 1.5 hours and an incoming foster dog in the morning could possibly complicate me getting there tomorrow/Sunday.

The staff at the lfs have been trying to massage the air out of the fish. I went up to massage and shake the best I could. It's difficult because I found inflated fish shaking make waves, and you don't want the fish to come out of the water. (click to see video)


After trying the shaking I suggested submerging the fish in the deepest vessel they have available which is something like a brute container (approx. 30-35" I think) and described using an appropriate container and weighting it down etc. I imagine the idea is that the pressure will make the trapped air go into solution, right?

From my understanding they might want to try the needle/syringe soon so that is why I'm asking for more details on it.. I want them to be as prepared as possible.

They want to be as prepared as possible so that is why I'm asking for advice on trying a needle to expel the air.

[Pufferpunk]

Is his face out of the water at all? I think tranquilizing him would prevent the puffing, so you can actually massage the bubble out.