Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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FishFan
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Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by FishFan »

Fish is a Striped Burrfish
Water
0 ppm ammonia
0 ppm nitrite
5 ppm nitrate
SG 1.010 steady last 9 days
pH steady 8.1
72 degrees
No powerhead to get stuck on this time, and no tankmates

This fish seems to have developed these symptoms since noon today (7 hours ago):
Head is covered with white slime coat that is sloughing and head appears swollen
Began hovering at bottom of tank, but still actively swimming around
Began swimming with mouth open
Currently in hypo saline for treatment of crypt (which has not been visible on the fish for 7 of the past 9 days)
Administered Metronidazole in soaked carnivore pellets last 3 days
Last ate at noon today

We've never seen anything like this - photos below. We have begun treatment with marine Melafix (the only medication we have on hand). Any other medication would have to be overnighted.
Anne and Robert

Image

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by FishFan on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A = Anne, R =Robert

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bertie 83
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by bertie 83 »

I would suggest ending the hypo for now, crypt is likely the least of your worries. Wait for someone more in the know to confirm but I would drop acclimate back up and keep with the melafix personally
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by Pufferpunk »

My fear is the dreaded Vibro. Do a search.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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FishFan
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by FishFan »

It could be vibrio, but we're inclined to diagnose this as Brooklynella ( Clown fish disease) because of the very heavy sloughing slime coat and lack of red lesions. It now covers about half of his body and is spreading rapidly. We've dosed the tank with Melafix in the hope that it may slow things down. It's what we have.

Some sources say metronidazole treats Brooklynella, while others say it won't and only formalin will work. There is one fish store about 45 min drive from here that might have a formalin formulation or antibiotics antibiotics such as Maricyn 2 or a furizolodone/nitrofuran based medication that would work on vibrio.

We are reluctant to raise salinity because of the reduced oxygen in the water and additional energy he would need for osmoregulation, these could be problematic. The added stress/energy or the change could kill him. He has been doing very well in the hypo and eating like a champ and was last fed yesterday. Interestingly he us still up and swimming around. Obviously he's not as happy or energetic as he was, but if there were not the slime and discoloration we might not recognize that he was sick. Regardless I think we need to treat him ASAP with formalin dips, antibiotics, or maybe even both.

Unless someone has a better suggestion. Tonight I will take a sample of his slime and look at it with my scope, but historically mine isn't strong enough to diagnose bacterial. I may be able to see a protozoan infection like brooklynella.
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by Pufferpunk »

Poor fella.. :( He sure is in the best of hands though!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by FishFan »

Pufferpunk wrote:Poor fella.. :( He sure is in the best of hands though!
We both feel pretty helpless. We gave him a formalin dip with 2ml 37% solution in 2 gallons for an hour. He didn't seem bothered by it at all. His eyes clouded and he turned dark on the infected areas. The store in Portland didn't have the antibiotics so we may need to drive up to Augusta to get some tomorrow, there is a PetSmart there.
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by casc »

I'm really sorry. That must be scary. I really hope he pulls through for you guys. Good luck!
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FishFan
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by FishFan »

He didn't make it. Died about 36 hours after discovery. It progressed rapidly to cover about 80% of his body in that time. Posting a photo from last night.

We started disinfecting by putting 30 lbs of salt in the operating tank to run for a day or two. Later we'll bleach and scrub everything and let it completely air dry...maybe for a year or two.

Very discouraged. :(

Time to go play kill the crab with Oblio. :)

A&R

Compare to the above photos, this photo is from 24 hours after initial observation (sorry for the bad quality phone photo):
Image
Last edited by FishFan on Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A = Anne, R =Robert

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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by Arny »

Sorry to hear that mate. They are beautiful puffers :(
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by puffermichigan »

I'm so sorry for your loss.
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by Tripp »

Completely sucks man so sorry for your loss
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by Pufferpunk »

:'( Definitely looks like the killer, Vibro.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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FishFan
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by FishFan »

Pufferpunk wrote::'( Definitely looks like the killer, Vibro.
The disease progressed just as fast down his body last night after formalin. The onset occurred during oral treatment for IPs with metronidazole. Melafix did not slow the progress at all though we had hoped to gain some time. Either our formalin dip was ineffective (maybe old formalin) or it wasn't Brooklynella and you may be right.

Neither of us had heard of Vibriosis prior to reading your comments. Since it can infect people it makes sense to put a Vibriosis-effective antibiotic in the tank for a few days before breaking down the setup.
-R
A = Anne, R =Robert

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Pufferpunk
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T lineatus
T miurus
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T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by Pufferpunk »

Vibro treatment:
"Try a combined therapy of Maracyn and Maracyn II in a hospital setup or as 10-20 times overdosed half hour baths.

The problem with this Vibrio sp. infection is that almost never real antibiotics are used in the early stage (which would be day 1).

A large UV sterilizer with a slow flow and feeding high vitamin food as well as high oxygen (esp. by surface current, 30 times tank volume per hour, no skimming while treating) can support the treatment.

There are many different Vibrio spp. with very variable symptoms, the most commonly known affecting humans is cholera. I *guess* Cholera meds may have an influence on the fish Vibrio species, too. Anyway, don't grab into the aquarium with wounds and clean your hands thoroughly after contact with the fish or its water.

Another important Vibrio species (obviously not the one of this infection) is thought by some scientists to live in symbiosis with puffers and to produce their tetrodotoxin poison."
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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FishFan
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Re: Sudden illness - white head and heavy slime

Post by FishFan »

Nasty disease. Both the C. schoepfii we've kept continuously swam very energetically and liked strong currents. We found that this fish almost completely stopped glass surfing when given a power head and strong currents. A couple reports on wwm that sound similar to this fish's death also note starting near/at the mouth. I'm wondering if the fish injured its skin on its mouth glass surfing sufficiently to create a wound for the bacteria normally present to become a pathogen.Speculative, but worth noting.

Interesting recent study:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi ... ne.0039971

Nobody we've shown the photos or video to has seen anything like this. I hope I never see it again.
A = Anne, R =Robert

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