GSP & F8 sick

[iggie]

1) Water Parameters
According to API Freshwater Master Test Kit
pH - 7.5
Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
Nitrites - 0 ppm
Nitrates - <5 ppm

2) Tank size and list of inhabitants
125 gallon freshwater aquarium. One 18inch pleco, two cory cats, two clown loaches, two mollies, two F8 puffers, and two GSP.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank.
Once daily I sprinkle 1 tablespoon of API Bottom Feeder Premium Shrimp Pellets, some Tetramin Tropical Flakes and freeze dried blood worms. Every other day I feed the flakes 2 times. I do a 50% water change every two weeks. The tank is HEAVILY decorated with every size fake plant. There are two large fake rock caves, a large fake tree stump/root system, a giant pyramid of small terracotta planters, several small terracotta pyramids, several large natural rocks and rock caves, and 100lbs of pool filter sand as the substrate. I have four Fluval FX5's running- two of them are strictly bio and 2 of them are strictly mechanical/physical. When I do a water change I use API Stress Coat+. I also use API aquarium salt. For lighting I have two Marineland ML Double Bright LED Light. At night I leave one on the Lunar setting (blue LED) and the other light off. I alternate which light is on the lunar setting every week.

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so.
I went out of town for two days and put four TetraWeekend Tropical Slow Release Feeders in the aquarium. Other than this I had done absolutely nothing different until I noticed the puffers looked ill.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it?
The aquarium was cycled 15 months ago using several mollies and goldfish. It has been stocked with normal ornamental fish for about 13 months.

About seven months ago I purchased two GSPs. They were both tiny and their fins looked chewed up. They were introduced to the aquarium and thrived and their fins managed to heal. One guy more so than the other though. One of my GSPs is about 5 inches long and has a girth similar to that of a golf ball. It has a huge white belly and seems very happy all of the time. The other GSP was growing and seemed to be doing fine but not nearly at the rate of its tank mate. It is significantly smaller but as of a few days ago it is starting to look darker, and almost shriveled up. Also, its mouth is always open.
Then about three months ago I purchased the F8 puffers. They have both been doing perfectly fine as well. They were also very small when I got them and they have grown slightly. They are about 1 - 1.5 inches in length and usually present a positive demeanor hunting through the plants and caves in the aquarium. One of them is doing fine but the other one looks like it is starving to death but I have seen it eating. Imagine when you see the dogs on the SPCA commercials and you can see their ribs and the hip bones are jutting out. I know puffers do not have ribs or "hip" bones but it looks as if the belly is sunken in horribly and there are large bumps where you can imagine hips would be. This little guy just started sitting on the bottom of the tank hiding in the back of a deep cave a few days ago. Also on one of his "hip bones" there seems to be either a large white mass/growth or a wound that has exposed meat. I think it looks more like a growth but I am not positive.
I did a 75% water change even though my levels seem fine. I treated the new water with the API Stress Coat+ and replaced the API Aquarium Salt as well. Both of the fish seemed to get worse quick after that so I just moved them to a 10 gallon hospital/nursery tank. It has a hang on back filter that is rated for up to a 40g tank. There is a lot of water circulation but the current is not too strong; I have had new born mollies in there that were fine. The levels in the 10g are nominal as well as I always keep it going just in case. As I am sitting here writing this I checked on the quarantined little guys and the GSP was stuck to the hang on back filter intake. His eyes were not responsive so I got the net to scoop him and it startled him. He then started looking for something to eat. The litlle F8 just sits at the bottom of the tank doing nothing.
Sorry this is so thorough. I just do not want to leave out ANYTHING that may help you guys help me.

Thank you.

[bertie 83]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Thanks for the detail, that certainly helps. It sounds like your puffer has internal parasites, you need to find a medication you can soak their food in. Now this is going to sound brutal: you are not feeding the correct things for your puffers, they need regular hard foods and lots of meaty stuff. You should not be showing any ammonia, something is very wrong there. Your tank is totally incompatible with fish that require a wide range of water chemistry ( plec: freshwater, f8 and mollies : low brackish 1.003-1.005, gsp : high brackish or marine).

[RTR]

+1 to bertie's comments above. The food situation is way off for F-8s and GSPs, and these both are by temperament and water requirements totally incompatible with the each other as well as the other fish present. You must make choices about what water type you want and then remove the other fish elsewhere.

Beyond that, there is or may be some significant problem with the biofiltration. Ammonia should never be detectable in an established tank unless the testing is done shortly afer a water change. Hobby test kit cannot tell the difference between conditioner-treated ammonia -which is harmless- and dangerous ammonia. Can you clarify this?

Is there uneaten food on the substrate? Do you vacuum the substrate as part of the water change?

[Pufferpunk]

You should read these articles & let us know what changes you will be doing to help your fish's longevity:
library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/
library/puffers-in-focus/fig8/
library/feeding/feeding-your-puffers/
library/hospital/internal-parasites-pre ... treatment/

[RTR]

Thanks for the references PP, those should help clarify things a lot.

[iggie]

Bertie, PP, and RTR thank you for the informative posts. Today I purchased another 125 gallon on Craigslist for my remaining GSP. My sickly one didn't make it through that night. Also I'm on the fence about putting down my sickly F8 (I read ALL about euthanasia on this forum). His other "hip bone" ruptured. He is alone in a 10g right now and I went to LFS and was given several meds. One for parasite, one for physical wound, and one for bacterial infection. I found a person that wants to "adopt" my healthy F8 as I prefer the GSPs. I plan on using some of that bottled tank cycling bacteria with the new tank so that I can get it up and going ASAP. I ordered some new canister filters on Amazon (cheap ones, can't afford fx5s right now lol). Once everything comes together I will let you know how everything is going.

[Pufferpunk]

Which bacteria did you buy? There is only 1 or maybe 2 that are actually LIVE bacteria. The rest is all crap dead bacteria. I'd think with the dilution of waste of a single fish in a 125g tank, you'd be fine without cycling 1st. You could keep 3 GSPs in there or 2 & a Ceylon.

[Pufferpunk]

Which bacteria did you buy? There is only 1 or maybe 2 that are actually LIVE bacteria. The rest is all crap dead bacteria. I'd think with the dilution of waste of a single fish in a 125g tank, you'd be fine without cycling 1st. You could keep 3 GSPs in there or 2 & a Ceylon.