This is probably a VERY redundant question, but I tried searching for this discussion in other threads and I couldn't find one, so at least I tried! :p
I have read some interesting things about GSP and F8 puffers and their behavior in their natural habitats. I read that often times they will bury themselves beneath the sand with their eyes sticking out (much like a flounder) waiting for prey. (If this is wrong, let me know... that will kind of defeat my reason for asking about sand substrate)
I wanted to pick up some sand to put in with my puffs, but I have read and heard mixed things from multiple sources. I read somewhere online that sand is best for puffs so they can practice the above behavior *and* that it is easy to clean.
I *heard* from someone at a LFS that sand is very difficult to clean. So there is my problem... I don't want a substrate that would make such high-waste fish tanks have nitrate/nitrite problems because I can't clean it well. Which one is it? Is sand harder to clean or easier?
*edited to add* Currently I have large polished gravel in the tanks.
Thanks for the help-
Michelle
Sand Substrate? Please put an end to my confusion...
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OraLacerta
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Pufferpunk
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puffernuke
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As PP said, the puffs you mentioned do not burrow. IME and IMHO I prefer sand.
Downside: It can be a pain to maintain, cleaning it is easier IMO all you have to do is lightly vacuum over the sand surface, but (and this is a big, hairy, cellulite-covered but) you have to remove your decor and stir the sand with every few water changes this can cloud up your water(will clear up in a matter of hours depending on your filter) this can be hard on your filters.
Upside: IMO it is more natural looking, and clean looking (if you keep up on it). Also removing the decor allows you to change stuff around and give your puffs something new to explore.
Overall: gravel is easier to clean in the long run, but IMO sand is worth the work.
Downside: It can be a pain to maintain, cleaning it is easier IMO all you have to do is lightly vacuum over the sand surface, but (and this is a big, hairy, cellulite-covered but) you have to remove your decor and stir the sand with every few water changes this can cloud up your water(will clear up in a matter of hours depending on your filter) this can be hard on your filters.
Upside: IMO it is more natural looking, and clean looking (if you keep up on it). Also removing the decor allows you to change stuff around and give your puffs something new to explore.
Overall: gravel is easier to clean in the long run, but IMO sand is worth the work.
"P.S. - this is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated."
- Mitch Hedberg R.I.P.
- Mitch Hedberg R.I.P.
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
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RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
Thanks for responding so quick guys!
Well, I guess this goes to show you you can't believe everything you read on the internet, but that's why I asked.
Pufferpunk: I haven't looked into crushed coral before, I'm looking into it now, thanks for the suggestion.
Puffernuke: Thank you for sharing your knowledge of dealing with sand. I already remove all of my decorations before cleaning the tanks so I can rinse out any food particles and clean off algae (which is where my handy dandy old toothbrush comes in handy!). The only thing that would worry me is the stress on the filter after stirring the sand up. Is it possible to leave the filter off for a few hours until it settles if I have other means of aerating the tank?
Maybe I will use sand in one tank and crushed coral in the other just to see which I like better
Well, I guess this goes to show you you can't believe everything you read on the internet, but that's why I asked.
Pufferpunk: I haven't looked into crushed coral before, I'm looking into it now, thanks for the suggestion.
Puffernuke: Thank you for sharing your knowledge of dealing with sand. I already remove all of my decorations before cleaning the tanks so I can rinse out any food particles and clean off algae (which is where my handy dandy old toothbrush comes in handy!). The only thing that would worry me is the stress on the filter after stirring the sand up. Is it possible to leave the filter off for a few hours until it settles if I have other means of aerating the tank?
Maybe I will use sand in one tank and crushed coral in the other just to see which I like better
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Pufferpunk
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T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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In my burrowing puffer tank (T miurus) I have a sponge over the intake. Ruined 1 impeller already... I stir weekly. Having to stir a tank's sand >20g, to me, would be a royal PITA. JMO
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
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londonloco
- Figure 8 Puffer
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I've read about sand hardening and anaerobic (spell?) pockets forming and poisoning tanks. Anyone here knowledgeable about that? Does this happen in freshwater tanks, or just marine tanks? I'm interested because I have a black sand bed in my multi tank, and with small fish and the shells, it's almost impossible for me to "stir the sand bed"...
120G reef, 72G discus, 30G to be puffer tank, 3G snail tank, 12G multi shell dweller tank
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puffernuke
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I actually use an old HOB filter just after stirring until it is mostly clear, then I take it off and used my actual filter to finish clearing it up. It is not as hard on the nice filter then. The quicker you can filter out the sand dust, the less stressful it is on your fish too. The old Wal-mart filter I use clears up my water pretty quick.OraLacerta wrote:The only thing that would worry me is the stress on the filter after stirring the sand up. Is it possible to leave the filter off for a few hours until it settles if I have other means of aerating the tank?
"P.S. - this is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated."
- Mitch Hedberg R.I.P.
- Mitch Hedberg R.I.P.
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
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RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
Thank you for all of your input everyone. I do want to use sand eventually, but since it's so work intensive I think I will just wait until I have the free time to mess around with it
Maybe I'll test it out in a small tank someday w/some ghost shrimp first.
Thanks for all the help
-Michelle
Maybe I'll test it out in a small tank someday w/some ghost shrimp first.
Thanks for all the help
-Michelle
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
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el_jefe125
- Puffer Fry
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Hello all. I am new to this forum as I am considering picking up one or two F8 puffers for a 20 gallon tank I have just acquired. Great forum by the way. I have a 60 gallon African Cichlid tank with a sand substrate. I did a lot of research on this topic before deciding to switch from gravel to sand. The biggest piece of advice I can give on switching to sand is to spend a lot of time washing the sand. I used sand from a local sand quarry(spelling?) and had to wash it for a long time.
I cleaned the sand by filling a 5 gallon bucket with approximately 50% sand and filled the rest with water. I then used a garden hose with a high pressure nozzle to agitate the sand in the bucket. I moved the nozzle around in the bucket and pushed it through the sand in order to get to the bottom of the sand. I leaned the slightly so that the water would flow out the low end of the bucket. You need to do this until the water washing out of the bucket is relatively cloudless. I stopped washing when I could turn off the nozzle in the bucket and the water on top cleared quickly with the sand settling to the bottom. I was surprised by how much sand I lost out of the bucket doing this, but it worked out great in the end.
Because I used unpackaged sand, I dried the sand in my oven and then sifted the sand through a screen to remove the larger pieces of stone from the fine sand. I then shut my filter off and added the sand and decorations to my tank. Once this was done I fired up my filters with paper towel in the media trays to try to pull out some of the fine sand suspended in the tank. After a couple of hours the tank cleared up and I was good to go.
After this initial settling period I have never had a clouding problem with my tank. I believe that if your water clouds when agitating sand, then the sand was not cleaned properly prior to placing it in the tank. The only solution is to take the sand out and wash it again. I can attest that you will have anaerobic pockets build up over time as the sand packs down and food and waste decompose in the sand. I can sometimes see these pockets form against the glass. There are two things that I have done to keep my fish safe from these pockets: (1) My sand is only around 1 inch deep in my tank, which decreases the amount of pockets that build up. (2) I stir up the sand in the bottom of the tank every week when I do my water change. I do this with my hand so that I can get under my rocks and get everything stirred up. I can ofter see small bubbles come up from the sand when I stir the sand.
I have been very happy with the sand substrate overall. It looks really natural and my Cichlids like to dig in it and sift for food, so that makes the sand even more fun. I'm not sure I am going to go to the trouble of setting up sand for my puffer tank as F8's don't seem to burrow and I have some other substrate sitting around that would not require the effort of cleaning and sifting prior to placing in the tank. Once you have your sand cleaned and into your tank, the only extra maintenance is spending the two minutes it takes to stir up your sand when you do your water changes. I hope this info will help some that are thinking about making the jump to sand substrate. If I remember right, I found most of my info on http://www.fishgeeks.com and http://www.cichlid-forum.com(see library for some good sand articles).
EJ[/i]
I cleaned the sand by filling a 5 gallon bucket with approximately 50% sand and filled the rest with water. I then used a garden hose with a high pressure nozzle to agitate the sand in the bucket. I moved the nozzle around in the bucket and pushed it through the sand in order to get to the bottom of the sand. I leaned the slightly so that the water would flow out the low end of the bucket. You need to do this until the water washing out of the bucket is relatively cloudless. I stopped washing when I could turn off the nozzle in the bucket and the water on top cleared quickly with the sand settling to the bottom. I was surprised by how much sand I lost out of the bucket doing this, but it worked out great in the end.
Because I used unpackaged sand, I dried the sand in my oven and then sifted the sand through a screen to remove the larger pieces of stone from the fine sand. I then shut my filter off and added the sand and decorations to my tank. Once this was done I fired up my filters with paper towel in the media trays to try to pull out some of the fine sand suspended in the tank. After a couple of hours the tank cleared up and I was good to go.
After this initial settling period I have never had a clouding problem with my tank. I believe that if your water clouds when agitating sand, then the sand was not cleaned properly prior to placing it in the tank. The only solution is to take the sand out and wash it again. I can attest that you will have anaerobic pockets build up over time as the sand packs down and food and waste decompose in the sand. I can sometimes see these pockets form against the glass. There are two things that I have done to keep my fish safe from these pockets: (1) My sand is only around 1 inch deep in my tank, which decreases the amount of pockets that build up. (2) I stir up the sand in the bottom of the tank every week when I do my water change. I do this with my hand so that I can get under my rocks and get everything stirred up. I can ofter see small bubbles come up from the sand when I stir the sand.
I have been very happy with the sand substrate overall. It looks really natural and my Cichlids like to dig in it and sift for food, so that makes the sand even more fun. I'm not sure I am going to go to the trouble of setting up sand for my puffer tank as F8's don't seem to burrow and I have some other substrate sitting around that would not require the effort of cleaning and sifting prior to placing in the tank. Once you have your sand cleaned and into your tank, the only extra maintenance is spending the two minutes it takes to stir up your sand when you do your water changes. I hope this info will help some that are thinking about making the jump to sand substrate. If I remember right, I found most of my info on http://www.fishgeeks.com and http://www.cichlid-forum.com(see library for some good sand articles).
EJ[/i]
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
Hey El!
Welcome to The Puffer Forum!
Wow, that was really in-depth. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. As for me, I'm not going to put sand into any of my tanks until I have more free time (if that will ever happen!).
F8 puffers are my favorite (don't tell my GSPs) just because they tend to be less aggressive and mine have never inflicted injuries upon one another, unlike my GSPs.
Keep us up to date and pics of other puffs are greatly appreciated! :3:
Welcome to The Puffer Forum!
Wow, that was really in-depth. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. As for me, I'm not going to put sand into any of my tanks until I have more free time (if that will ever happen!).
F8 puffers are my favorite (don't tell my GSPs) just because they tend to be less aggressive and mine have never inflicted injuries upon one another, unlike my GSPs.
Keep us up to date and pics of other puffs are greatly appreciated! :3: