BW to SW: A Plan of Action! Or... I need some advice.

[Phaedrus]

I currently have my GSP in a 30g tank with an SG of 1.013. In the middle of May I will be moving into a new larger apartment where I will finally be able to setup my 55g tank that has been in waiting for almost a year now. I've been holding off raising my salinity any further until I setup the 55g and can afford a skimmer setup.

I need some advice on:
- What skimmer to choose
- Whether it should be HOB or in sump
- If in-sump, what that would entail
- A few questions about live rock.

The protein skimmers I have to choose from can be found here and here.

If I went with a HOB I would go with an AquaC Remora Pro and probably no sump.

If you think a sump would be worthwhile, what skimmer would you recommend from those available from those links? The AquaC Urchine is tempting.

I've never had a sump before, and I'm not sure what exactly they entail. Would a large tupperware container be adequate? Would an overflow box + pump return be all I needed?

I'd also like to add live rock, but the local selection is rather dismal. What alternatives do I have? What SG is really needed before I can add liverock?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Tihsho]

- Whether it should be HOB or in sump

If you have the space do both, or a sump + a canister

- If in-sump, what that would entail

Look for a 29 (or use your 33 since you have it) and setup an over flow from your 55 to the 33 and a powerhead to use for the outtake. Then basically set it up (from L to R or R to L) intake, sponges, biomedia, chemical. Jager should be more help about designing one if thats what you like.

I've never had a sump before, and I'm not sure what exactly they entail. Would a large tupperware container be adequate? Would an overflow box + pump return be all I needed?

I'd look for a tank, Tupperwares can bow and leak on you unless you can rig up a frame...

[londonloco]

IMO, a canister and sump/protein skimmer would be a waste of money. A sump and a GOOD protein skimmer would be more than enough. No need for a canister. I would go with an "in the sump" protein skimmer, the BEST one you can afford. I have a Life Reef system, and it was stupidly expensive. I would definitely recommend Jeff's (Life Reef) protein skimmer but never buy another sump. A 20 gallon long tank would do you fine...and it's probably 1/10th of the cost....However, how much room do you have beneath your tank? Make sure whatever sump you get will be accessibly, and is big enough to handle the water that drains from your tank into the sump when you kill the power (for cleaning, water changes and power outages).

You need to search boards, web, etc. and get a feel for what flow is correct for your set up. I had a 72 gallon reef set up and used a MAG 9.5 for my protein skimmer and return. Tho power heads are really just small pumps, flow in a salt water tank is very important. I'm not sure a power head will be enough flow.

It's VERY important you set this up right from the beginning. If you don't, you'll be replacing equipment continually.

As far as live rock, I know there are on line vendors that have great prices. A year ago, a friend of mine got premium live rock, delivered to our airport for under 3.50$ a pound. I was skeptical. But when it came in, tho it wasn't as purple as what I've seen going for $6 a pound, it was porous and the shapes were outstanding. Within a year, her coraline has taken off, and you can't tell it wasn't 6$ a pound rock at all.....

[Phaedrus]

I currently have a fluval 304 canister and a whisper60 HOB on the 30 gallon.

The tank stand I will be using can be found here. It's custom built, as you can see, but I didn't really have a good idea of what I wanted or needed at the time. The door on the front is kind of on the small side, but the back is open.

It may be possible to fit a 20g tank inside, though I'm not certain. I probably would not be able to fit the 30 gallon inside. How big would the sump need to be to handle the flow?

If I didn't go with a sump, would the remora pro be good enough? If I did get a sump, would the urchine be good enough?

[londonloco]

There is also a need for an overflow if your tank is not reefready, and I'm assuming it's not. I'm not familiar with either the remora pro or the urchine. Search some of the other marine websites (like reef central) and see if there are any reviews. Since you've waited this long to convert to marine, you really need to do it right....

[Phaedrus]

I'm in no rush. Just starting to plan for the months ahead. I'd like to do it this summer though.

From what I've found on the AquaC lines they are very respected and many reviews sing their praises. I was wondering if anyone had any personal experience with them to verify.

I'm not really sure what "reefready" entails. I assume it's not as well. It's just a plain 55g that came in a FW kit.

[Jager]

reef ready = already drilled in holes for overflows. your tank will need an overflow box. they can be expensive but guess what i have one im not using that i can sell you.

as for the Aqua C skimmers. one of the best on the market period. for your size tank its perfect.

as for a suimp, it can be simple or very well planned out. id do at least a sinlge baffle or tank divider and put the protien skimmer and output from the tank into that side. and put the pump and return line on the other to cut down on bubbles. if you want better. try a setup like mine a DSB and caulerpa, on one side with the tank output line and on the other side the skimmer and the return pump and its line.

there is quite a bit of flexibility for that kind of thing.

if you can get the dimensions of the stand inside and the back opening. and then measure the 20 gallon you are gonig to buy thatll let you know if it will fit.

[Phaedrus]

After reading here and doing more research I've decided that if a sump is practical, I will go with that and the urchine pro. If not, I will forego the sump entirely and just use the remora. I have not been able to find a negative review of it.

Will I suffer for it if I don't use a sump?

The tank does not have an overflow, and I'm pretty sure it's tempered glass. :s Will that be another problem?

[Jager]

er you cant drill your tank
you need an overflow box

and you wont suffer without a sump, but youll do more water changes

[Phaedrus]

I've been looking at these overflow boxes: http://www.lifereef.com/siphon.html

They seem expensive, but very good quality. Any opinions?

Any idea on what the average dimensions are for a 20g tank? Nevermind, found it

Are there any alternatives to an actual tank that would work just as well, but might fit a bit better?

Is it agreed that 20g is the minimum I would need for a sump? Would 15g be enough (or better than nothing) if it could fit where a 20 wouldn't.

When I originally planned the tank stand, I had envisioned it having a sump inside, but I also envisioned it being a bit more accessable. I have yet to see the stand in person, but I will be getting it from home May 19th. So until then it will remain up in the air.

I do know that the internal dimensions of the stand will be close to 4' by 1.5' but a little less. It may be able to hold a 20g, but I may not be able to fit it inside. :p

[Jager]

i had a ten gallon sump on my 55 and then i had tw otens drilled for a sump/ refugium in my 55 before i got tired of the extra BS required to keep them both running right. i have a aquatic life support overflow box that i can sell you very reliable and handled 500gph well rated for 7 or 800gph.

[lisalisa]

You don't NEED a sump. A sump adds extra water volume and gives you a place to hide heaters and things. It is beneficial, no doubt, but if you are finding it more work than you want, you can totally go without it. IMHO a 10-gallon sump really isn't worth the expense of over-flow boxes and pumps, etc., as it adds very little volume to your set-up.
I have a AquaC Remora Pro, and I can tell you it is awesome. I love it.

[londonloco]

Lisa is right, since technology has advanced HOB protein skimmers are more effective. However, that said, adding a 10 gallon sump on a 55 gallon is adding almost 20% to your total water volume. Phaedrus said his stand is open back. I'm pretty sure a 20 g tank will fit, the drawback is if he ever has a need to replace his sump, he basically has to tear down his system if the tank is on a wall. Sumps do much more than add total water voluming and hide heaters. Once a sump set up is understood, plumbing is a breeze. An overflow provides surface skimming. IMO, an in-sump ps allows for more effective skimming. Ozone and oxygen levels are much better with sumps. As far as cost, think about the cost of everything your keeping alive in your tank. If Phaedrus is thinking corals, live rock and sand, anemones, inverts, etc....once a sump/ps/fuge system is set up correctly, the cost of the inhabitants will eventually be more than the cost of his equipment. It took me over a year of investigating sumps/ps/lighting to get my reef to where it is now. It wasn't until the Berlin method caught on in the US that our reefs were able to support all the inhabitants we keep today. IMO, sumps are the best way (and yes, I have to say it, ONLY way) to go if you plan on a full reef setup. However, a FOWLR, well, I'd still have a sump, but I think it's less of a necessity than a full reef set up. Just my opinion..hope this helps..loco

[Pufferpunk]

My biggest fear of a sump would be it overflowing, cause the pump failed. How often does this happen. I'm thinking of investigating a overflow & sump at IMAC. It sure would be nice to get the nitrates down more & move my heater & skimmer out of my tank. Guess I better bring the credit card!

[Jager]

you never have to worry about overflows with sumps if you do one minor test. just fill the tank to the overflows. and put the sump in. then run your plumbing as usual and fill the upper tank til its full and the sump will fill with some water. run the system like that for a minute and mark where the water level is, and then cut it off. watch the sump and mark where the water level rises to when its off. that distance is all you need to leave in the sump to take up any excess water without flooding.

to lisa. you do water changes on your tanks, you dont have a sump. i have a sump with a DSB and caulerpa, i dont need to do water changes. so a sump if set up well makes a world of difference.
the 10 gallon on my 55 was actually more sump than i needed for the system considering my levels.