Hi Everyone! I am new here!
I have a juvenile GSP(about 1-2”) that as of last night has not been his normal goofy self. Lethargic, not really interested in food, and darker in color.
His story below and tank information below that:
I am running a 60 gallon tank has been completely cycled for about 3 months or so. About 2 weeks ago we decided to switch out a plastic tree décor with 3 pieces of some nice lace rock from our LFS. We did as they said just rinse it off real well to get any mud or gunk off of it. The fish loved it, all the hiding spots and caves. At the time we had a green scat along with all the other fish mentioned below, who since the time we had him was very timid. Our ruby scat was not the nicest fish and often beat up on him. I was just about to find him a new home when he just disappear, literally! We checked under and around all the rocks and his normal hiding spots, the filters, everywhere! No sign of green scat. That was about 7-10 days ago and then just this past weekend we were doing a water test and the nitrates jumped up, quite high. Our color chart only goes from 80-160 and it was in between there. We immediately did a water changed of about 30% and discovered in the back corner a bone yard of green scat. Needless to say we have no idea how we did not see any sort of carcass or remains aside from his clean bones. We attributed this spike in nitrates to green scats body decomposing/being eaten in the tank. After the water change the nitrates fell to about 40-60. Last night I went to feed the fish and our little GSP(his name is Barney, just for the record) was just in the back corner(same corner green scat also hid) not wanting to come out and eat, which is not like himself at all! I was able to aim some Rod’s food back at him and he did eat a few bites. His color is darker than usual and he is very lethargic and tail also curled. This morning I went to check on him and he was in the same spot as last night, about 45 mins right before I left for work I went to check on him again and his is gone! I can’t find him anywhere. I wasn’t able to look in great depth since I had to leave for work but a quick 5 min check and no sign of him. I have no idea what is going on and I am hoping he was just in a good hiding spot. Has anyone else experienced this or know what might be going on? I will be checking on him at lunch and if I can find him any idea what might be going on with him and what I can do to help him out?
Tank Stats:
60 Gallon(fully cycled for about 3 months)
Running 2 Penguin 350 biowheel filters(each filter is good for up to 75gal tank)
Use RO/DI water for changes
Tank Buddies:
Sailfin Mollies(2 adults and about 10 1” long fry)
Hand full of bumble gobies(about 6?)
Ruby Scat
Knight Goby
3” GSP(Barney) – Got him about 6 weeks ago and doing fantastic!
2” GSP(Fred) – Sick one, Got about 4 weeks ago
1” F8(Bambam) – Got about 2 weeks ago and also doing really well.
Décor:
3 pieces of lace rock for caves and hiding
1 fake piece of driftwood
Variety of fake plants
1 Live java fern
1 almost gone some other plant I can’t remember the name of
Levels as of 9/2/13
Ammonia – 0
Nitrite – 0
Nitrates(as of last night) – about 40-60
SG – 1.005
I am planning to set up a quarantine tank, but that isn’t really going to help me now since I have to cycle that. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions it is greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Maggie
Lethargic, dark, sick GSP. HELP!
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Re: Lethargic, dark, sick GSP. HELP!
Nitrates of 40-60 is far too high for a puffer IMO. I'd shoot for closer to 20 or below. Plus, if it showed 80-160 and was closer to the higher end, I'm doubtful that a 30% WC actually made it drop as low as indicated. If you do a 50% WC, nitrates should be half of what they were before, and so on. So if it was 150, then 30% removed of 150 means it's still around 105.
I'd check again as well as do another 20-30% water change. If you use Prime or a similar dechlorinator that can throw off the nitrate reading, so it may still be higher than you think.
Long-term, the GSPs will also not mix with the other tankmates in terms of aggression and salinity needs, so IMO the best thing you could do for the sickly is get him in his own tank and start gradually (like .002 salinity per week) working your way up to closer to marine salinity e.g. 1.018-1.025. I think you'll need 30g per puffer so if you plan to keep both, you're probably looking at a 55g or bigger. And if you end up going marine, you'll want to consider getting a protein skimmer instead of a regular filter, though a hang on back can work if maintained well. Regardless, the GSPs will need to be on their own away from the low end brackish fish, if you want all the fish to thrive and be as healthy as possible.
Also, puffers are often treated poorly in transit and often end up with parasites, depending on whether the importer/pet shop treated them so wait for others to chime in on the best treatment but that might be another problem you have to deal with. Is his belly sunken in at all? If he's not getting enough to eat that can be a problem also. My GSP loves New Life Spectrum pellets, but I also feed him crunchy foods like snails, meaty foods like mysis, just a mix of things.
I'd check again as well as do another 20-30% water change. If you use Prime or a similar dechlorinator that can throw off the nitrate reading, so it may still be higher than you think.
Long-term, the GSPs will also not mix with the other tankmates in terms of aggression and salinity needs, so IMO the best thing you could do for the sickly is get him in his own tank and start gradually (like .002 salinity per week) working your way up to closer to marine salinity e.g. 1.018-1.025. I think you'll need 30g per puffer so if you plan to keep both, you're probably looking at a 55g or bigger. And if you end up going marine, you'll want to consider getting a protein skimmer instead of a regular filter, though a hang on back can work if maintained well. Regardless, the GSPs will need to be on their own away from the low end brackish fish, if you want all the fish to thrive and be as healthy as possible.
Also, puffers are often treated poorly in transit and often end up with parasites, depending on whether the importer/pet shop treated them so wait for others to chime in on the best treatment but that might be another problem you have to deal with. Is his belly sunken in at all? If he's not getting enough to eat that can be a problem also. My GSP loves New Life Spectrum pellets, but I also feed him crunchy foods like snails, meaty foods like mysis, just a mix of things.
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mhay
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:59 am
- My Puffers: Barney - GSP
Fred - GSP
BamBam - F8 - Location (country): USA
Re: Lethargic, dark, sick GSP. HELP!
Just got home for lunch and re tested the nitrates. Still extremely high. Typically it's below 10. I'll do another water change once I'm home from work and see what happens. We don't use a dechlorinater anymore since we use RO/DI water. Before we started that I used stress coat.
I do know long term there needs will change and plan to adjust accordingly just as of right now his behavior is so out of the blue and not usual. His belly looks normal, not sunk in at all. They get a variety a food as well. Sun dried krill, snails, ghost shimp(their favorite), frozen bloodworms, and rods frozen food.
I'm curious as to what other people say as well.
I do know long term there needs will change and plan to adjust accordingly just as of right now his behavior is so out of the blue and not usual. His belly looks normal, not sunk in at all. They get a variety a food as well. Sun dried krill, snails, ghost shimp(their favorite), frozen bloodworms, and rods frozen food.
I'm curious as to what other people say as well.
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
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Re: Lethargic, dark, sick GSP. HELP!
I'm sorry to say you will continue to have nitrate issues & eventual death of some of the weakest inhabitants (survival of the fittest), until you resolve your overstocking issues. The scat is considered the garbage dump of the BW world, somewhat like an Oscar or goldfish,. They get the size of a dinner plate & require a minimum of 55g as a singleton.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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bertie 83
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Loaches, Clown loaches ,Eels, various shrimp, tangs,wrasses, damsels, chromis - Location (country): Brighton, England
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Re: Lethargic, dark, sick GSP. HELP!
+1 to all above. I'm sorry to say this tank is a recipe for disaster. There are well over 100gallons worth of fish with totally different water requirements there
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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mhay
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:59 am
- My Puffers: Barney - GSP
Fred - GSP
BamBam - F8 - Location (country): USA
Re: Lethargic, dark, sick GSP. HELP!
Recipe for disaster? Really? I have talked in depth with my LFS who are well know for their knowledge in birds and aquatic life and have been in business for well over 25 years. They said with the amount of filtration I have I shod have no issues with nitrates. I have over double the recommended filtration for a 60g tank. And I haven't had any nitrate issues until recently, which I attribute to the green scat disappearing. I am aware of the puffers needs to increase salinity and plan to. Last night Fred made an appearance and isn't as dark on color and seems to be more social. I was unable to do a water change last night due to previous appointments on my schedule but will be doing one tonight. I do greatly appreciate all the input! Since I haven't had any nitrate issues up until now I plan continue as is.