Helping SAPs adapt

[Arny]

Hey guys sorry if this a silly q but what are sae?

Thx

[Fin]

Siamese Algae Eaters. The other thing about SAEs though is that most LFS never get them. Instead they usually get flying foxes which are known to become aggressive as adults. The two fish look very similar, which is one of several reasons why they get mixed up at LFS. If you see them in your LFS make sure you look for the scientific name Crossocheilus siamensis or Crossocheilus oblongus.

Also, I apologize if I'm coming across as difficult. I admit it is hard for me when I haven't seen any of the behaviors that many of you have mentioned. I'm not new to fish, but puffers are a recent attraction. I'll definitely keep an eye on the SAEs and look in to the otos. Are those what many of you use for clean up? I'm interested in seeing how many of you have any sort of clean up crew or don't bother and do it all yourself.

[bertie 83]

You are not being difficult at all, you have laid your cards on the table and not snubbed or instantly dismissed advice which is at times common here. You are taking on board everything said and are now actively watching for potential issues so a timely solution could be used IF you have said issues. I have had very poor success with ottos, they have either been mutilated by puffers ( first lot) or just died quickly, I could never grasp how to keep them alive so gave up rather than face more deaths. Only really for the most mature tanks and most experienced owners. By all means try but don't get too attached. I think mine was not a sae but a cae lol

[Fin]

I cannot stand CAEs, chinese algae eaters. I've tried several tanks with them and they have always become extremely aggressive. I had attempted one with the the SAPs a few months ago, but he actively bullied them. He grew to about 6 inches long and it took maybe maybe 2 hours to catch him so I could return him to the LFS. Never again.

I appreciate the different points of view and advice. I've had the dwarf puffer for about 2 years now, but the SAPs I got in January, so I'm still trying to figure out the best way to cut down on the neurotic-ism. For those of you that mentioned having a strong current in the tank, what sort of powerheads are you using? I'm current using a Marineland Maxi Jet 400. I guess upon further review it only does 110 g/ph in the the powerhead configuration, so I'm wondering if that's not enough current.

[Pufferpunk]

The trick to keeping healthy ottos, is to buy them with rounded bellies, not concave ones.

[bertie 83]

The one I use is 1000gph, it took him a while but he can now swim right up the current

[Fin]

Wow, that's a significant difference. Guess my next purchase is a different powerhead.

[bertie 83]

That is in a 100g+ tank. I wouldn't go quite so extreme in anything smaller

[Fin]

Recommendation for a 55g long? Half yours, so 500ish? When checking the current it doesn't quite make it half way down the front of the tank before slowing down.

[RTR]

Yup - there are a number of fish that are only suited to most hobby tanks when small/immature. When mature they should only be on their own in large tanks and frankly are not interesting enough to justify the tank space. LFS generally do not expect hobby fish to live to maturity. Most project them to live only a year or two, if that long. That is not maturity for most puffers. Most puffers should be set for 10-20 year lifespans, which the majority of LFS employees (and some owners) consider quite rare. Well-kept fish are not short lifespan pets. Or at least they should not be.

[bertie 83]

Yea shoot for around 500gph or so and see how you go

[Fin]

Alright, so after about 3 weeks with the new powerheads in there, the SAPs have changed drastically. I picked up a new powerhead that cycled 700 gph. Because of the dimensions of my tank, which is tall and long, but not wide, one powerhead even at 700 gph had a difficult time getting a good current going. So I placed one closer to the bottom, and my other one which was actually 500gph closer to the top of the water line to make an even current across the front glass.

For the first week, I saw some minor changes in the SAP personalities. The two smaller ones definitely began to perk up and spent far less time glass surfing. The largest of the three continued to troll in his/her corner. This behavior continued for the second week with the largest puffer. The two smaller SAPs began spending a majority of their time near the front of the glass. I noticed that they became more curious to the rest of the tank, as well as slightly more aggressive towards the colony of ghost shrimp that had made it's home at end of the tank where there was little water flow. They still leave the DP, SAEs, and Cory alone.

At the end of this third week, the largest does not spend the majority of his time in the high speed part of the current, but spends most of his/her time near the middle of the tanks in the plant line, or hunting. He moves towards the glass around their time. The two smaller saps continue to spend the majority of their time swimming in and out of the fastest part of the current. I noticed this week that when I woke up in the morning, the puffers looked as if they had been fed. I normally feed them in the evening. I did not give it much thought until two days ago when I noticed the three puffers thoroughly mangling several ghost shrimp and carrying it around proudly like a dog with a stick. Yesterday morning, I checked, and the ghost shrimp population has been almost entirely decimated. From close to 20 shrimp, there are now around 4. This is a vast change in their behavior from prior. I have had them since January, and they showed little to no interest in anything until recently. I don't mourn the loss of the shrimp, as I had originally put them in their to be eaten anyways. 90% of their time now is spent hunting or in the current. At this point, I only see them glass surf when I upset them while cleaning the filters, doing a water change, or trimming the plants.

I've also began referring to them as my cute little genocidal maniacs.

I'm curious about the largest puffer and the 2 smaller ones. I know that as far as puffers go, SAPs don't have a lot of info on them yet, and to the best of my knowledge we're not sure about sexing. I've noticed that on the largest one there is no black spot on the underside near the tail. Both of the others have this black spot. The largest has too many bands to be a banded puffer, to the best of my knowledge. Could this be an indication of sexual dimorphism?

[bertie 83]

It's great they are now showing less annoying sap personalities. I think the spot is just one of those things and not related to sex. You can now sit back and watch them swim swim swim.

[RTR]

It sounds as though they are tank adapting quite well.

[Fin]

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried amazon black water extract with SAP tanks? I'm curious if that has an effect as to how fast their teeth tend to grow in captivity compared to many of the other puffers people keep, or their personalities in general.