New puffer not active, or eating and turning black bellied..

[peawee]

I am a new puffer owner and unfortunately bought one (or 4) without researching first.. (Bad, I know!). He was sold to me as a brackish water fish, but was told it could be low end since he is only about an inch, and that he could live with tank mates. I chose the tank mates around him and his needs because I wanted him to be the star of the show. Or so I was told...

I had a 10gal Fancy Fantail goldfish tank for almost a year. I used all of the gravel from that tank and 50% of the water to start my 20 gal tank. I let it cycle with that for 2 days, then added new water, dechlorinator, Quick Start, and aquarium salt, and fish. Ammonia is between 0 and 0.5, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is ~10, pH was around 7.2 but I had to buy a new test strip kit and I believe this one is faulty, its too light to even be on the chart now, I just checked it yesterday with the old strips. Alkalinity is also off. I do not have a test kit for salinity.

size is 20gal with:
1-green spotted puffer
1-bala shark
3-pea puffers (dwarf puffers)
5-convict cichlids
1-common pleco
4-ghost shrimp (mostly eaten now, missing)

all which were sold together under the impression that they could live together and no issues yet other than the following problem.

As soon as I put them in the tank the convicts and pea puffers went wild swimming and having a great time. The pleco went into hiding but that's to be expected. The bala shark and the GSP went into the back corners of the tank and just sat at the bottom. During the day that is all they do. The bala will swim every now and then but then go back, and he is very skittish and jumpy. The gsp has started to turn black-bellied and he is not active nor do I ever see him eating... although my ghost shrimp are all missing but 1 and there is another halfshrimp floating around, but I didn't see him eating it. He sits in the back of the tank of the floor most of the day unless he sees me, then he starts fluttering his fins and kinda goes in a circle then goes back. I have seen him playing in the bubble curtain a couple of times since I replaced the old pump and wand, he seemed to really like it, and I got excited but it was short lived. He also was very interested in the vacuum when I did a gravel clean, trying to eat the dirt going up the tube. And I have seen him only once or twice chasing his reflection up and down the side. When the lights are off he comes out a little more towards the front, but tonight he is going up and down the back corner. I have fed them all tropical flakes, which he never even looked at (expected) and I only feed them once a day (flakes). So far I have only added the ghost shrimp, going to add snails tomorrow as petsmart didn't have any pond snails. Also, going to buy live or frozen bloodworms, see if maybe something will catch his interest. I am really concerned about the black lines all around the sides and connecting again where a belly button would be, I can't remember if he was pure white when I bought him as I didn't know what to look for.

Please help me save him, I really want to keep him and my other fish, can the others live in a low end brackish tank? Can he live in freshwater? At least until I get another tank strictly for gsp's? I believe he was in a freshwater tank when I bought him, there were other fish in the same tank that were not brackish. I am going to call the lfs in the morning to make sure. They are a very knowledgable fish store specializing in fish for over 25 years, I would hate to think I can't trust them or maybe the one associate helping me was just misinformed. He said they could live together because the tank was such a low end brackish that neither fish would be affected, and that the others were mostly bottom dwellers or like to hide that my puffer wouldn't attack them or find them, which he hasn't showed any aggression towards yet. There are TONS of hiding spaces for the super tiny fish and they are so cute too, so I would really like to keep them all.

any advice or help is very much appreciated! Thanks!

[scpion]

Erm...

I am sorry to have to be the one to tell u that you are heading for disaster.. Its way way super duper overstock.

Practically everything that u mentioned is your post is not quite right..

1) When u said u cycled your tank with the way that u mentioned and if u left it empty, your nitrifying bacterial would probably did not make it after 2 days and you are probably saved by the quick start if it worked... Dun be happy to see nitrate in your reading and think its cycled. I strongly believe they are from the old water. Dun trust test strips, use the liquid types for accurate readings.

2) All your fish have different requirement and I would say the difference are quite drastic.. some are purely fresh and do not tolerate salt while the GSP require High end brackish. And, AQUARIUM SALT does not make your water brackish. It just turn it a into a brine solution as RTR would say, very often.

3) I do not quite understand why Fish Shops sells their fish in mixed species tank though but if they told u that a GSP is a brackish fish and they house them in a FW environment, that speaks alot rite?

4) A full grown GSP can hit 6" and require high end brackish and require 30g for itself.. I dun even want to go into how big a common pleco or bala shark can grow...

5) If you have purchased all the livestocks that u had mentioned at one go, I would suggest bringing all of them back and bring along the largest screw that u can find and shove it into that particular salesperson backend, tight.

6) Time to scout for a new LFS.

Finally, Welcome to the forum!

[scpion]

BTW, many people will buy a common pleco along with other fish when they set up new tank with the misconception that the pleco eats algae and leftover thus making its a effective cleanup crew. That is entirely the opposite as a true pleco keeper will tell u that their bio waste/walrus are a nightmare and very often quickly outgrown their tank mates if kept with any..

[PufferMe!]

Post above is absolutely correct! Do the right thing by all your fish. Perhaps taking them back isn't the best thing, since they have no idea what they are doing at that store. You are way overstocked! You probably will have many losses if you don't do something, like at least place/return the pleco and bala shark and pea puffers quick. Convicts are aggressive and can hold their own, but you are in for real trouble. Is this a chain store selling you these together? I'd complain to the store, so you may be able to save some other poor fish that will be sold like this. So sad! You could start out with just the GSP in your tank, and plan on upgrading down the line. If your GSP even makes it, he will likely pick on and kill the poor pea puffers. GSP's don't eat flake food. Get him, some small snails, not malaysian trumpet snails. Buy a piece of raw shrimp and offer than to him, but don't leave any left over in the tank. You should not have any ammonia readings, and this is a real killer for fish.

Also, going up and down the glass is usually a sign of stress/boredom. Black belly is also a sign of stress, and you should not see that on any on-going basis.

[peawee]

I plan on upgrading when they get bigger, and I do water changes very often so nitrate never goes above 20. Can convicts live in low end brackish water if they are the only ones I keep with the g and the pleco I will trade in when he gets bigger for a smaller one, I bought him for algae. Same with Bala, but after reseaching when I got them, I now know he will probably get eaten

[Pufferpunk]

I am telling you right now, IF YOU DO NOT RETURN ALL THOSE OTHER TANKMATES, YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF DEATH IN YOUR TANK!!! There is NO other way around this, unless you plan on setting up a separate tank for the pea puffs & another tank for the shark, convicts & pleco. Make that at least a 90g & plan on about 4 more sharks, because they are schooling fish.

[bertie 83]

As pp said the sharks are schoolers. I have to say you will need a swimming pool for those alone as they are so large and so active. Your gsp will eat the pea puffs so all will likely die. The convicts will also get munched on along with the plec. Let alone the different water chemistry needed. This is one of the worst cases of mis information I have seen and I'm sorry it's you left to deal with it. I have to agree that you should take them back and we will help you set up with compatible fish. Welcome to the forum

[Squaffy]

wtf!

Take them all back to the shop and ask for a full refund

Have you considered keeping a Hamster? That 20 Gallon is a nice size for a Hamster (you'd have to tip the water out first though)

[Pufferpunk]

LOL, hamsters bite as bad as puffers!

[JRC3]

wtf!

Take them all back to the shop and ask for a full refund

Have you considered keeping a Hamster? That 20 Gallon is a nice size for a Hamster (you'd have to tip the water out first though)

Be nice. Some people have yet to find out the hard way just like the rest of us have. Many new fishkeeprs get advice from pet store clerks who iether don't care or don't know any better. Online forums are the best way to learn from and get advice from experienced fishkeepers and negative remarks will only turn people away. This place isn't a "Monster" of a fish keeping place.


Peawee, everyone here has the best of intentions. With the exception of the above replie the others may sound a bit harsh, but they know what they are talking about and aren't sugar coating anything. Please stick around and and I hope everything works out.

[peawee]

I appreciate the feedback that are genuinely trying to help. I will ignore the rude comment. I will put the pea puffers and convicts in a new tank and take the Bala back now that I know he is a schooling fish, they never should've sold him individually in the fist place. but then again I shouldve done my research. I went in the buy angels and came home with puffers.. I just fell in love!

Then I will slowly turn my tank brackish to acclimate my gsp to the salt change. The pleco will be returned as well.. Is there another fish that will eat algae as effectively and is safe to live with my puffer.. Or will the salt eliminate an algae problem?

Thank you everyone for the quick responses!

[peawee]

I talked to the store owner and even though they have an "all sales final" policy they agreed to return the Bala and pleco and apoligized for the misinformation.

Hopefully the salinity increase and more space will help my gsp feel better.

[Pufferpunk]

What will you about cycling the tank? And the pea puffers, where are they going?
Folks here don't mean to be rude--just passionate about puffers!

[peawee]

Im going to replace the gravel with sand (live? Would that be better for puffers tank?) And use the gravel back in the 10gal for the pea puffers and convicts. It still has 50% cycled water in it plus the old filter media. And add quick start if needed.

Any other recs? Or totally different suggestion?

[Pufferpunk]

Plain aragonite sand is what we recommend for GSPs & other BW fish. Did you read my GSP article? How about the ones on cycling?


That 10g is only good for 2 dwarf puffers. You also need to sex them. 2 males will fight to both their death.
library/puffers-in-focus/dwarfpuffercare/
library/puffers-in-focus/sexing-carinot ... rf-puffer/