Moss Balls and DP

[jeromecarlyoung]

Just wondering what my 2 month old DP is living on??
I have a single DP in a 5gallon tank and I have been determined that this fish will eat the frozen bloodworm and chopped molluscs. Problem being that i have never seen this fish eat any of it.
Theoryis that I have 2 moss balls which might be providing bugs to which my DP seems to pick at.
I have now bought 2 more Moss Balls to aid this theory. Problem is that buying these Moss Balls might have good and bad bugs as 2 weeks ago i spotted an exosceleton of a nasty nymph of some kind.

Is it possible for Moss Balls to harbour potential life for my DP to survive on?
By the way, my DP is getting bigger and maturing but does hunt a fair bit meaning he/she is a bit hungry.
My previous DP glutted on live whiteworms and was fat and lazy, a keen hunting behaviour may mean a DP is a bit underfed, I think. (General observation.)

Any ideas, thanks jerry

[RTR]

I never got my DPs to take non-living foods at all well. Their diet was live blackworms (are these availanle in the UK?) and smallish ramshorn snails.

I imagine that the hazard from moss balls would depend on the climate and conditions under which they were cultured.

HTH

[jeromecarlyoung]

I've been down the route of Worms in the fridge and breeding daphnia/snails with my other DP and it's a hassle. Worms in the fridge smell really bad after a week. Whiteworms seemed the easiest solution, personally, as I could get a breeding population running really easily.
I just thought that these balls might work like a "No Catch" zone you get in the sea where they become small centres of biological activity and when these bugs etc escape, they become a food for my DP. My DP spends his time just picking at minute things which are almost invisible so that was what got me thinking.
To be honest I think I may end up going back to Whiteworms as my frozen food sees to hang around too long).
Snails become messy if they get bitten and die.
I have been thinking about Frozen Lobster or Oyster Eggs; I have heard they create a mess also??

I'd get a bigger Puffer but the prospect of trimming Beaks seems a bit crazy; leave that to you proper Puffer experts, ey!

Jerry

[Pufferpunk]

Blackworms kept in the fridge can last me 2+ weeks, if: kept in minimum water & rinsed thoroughly, every other day. I buy 1lb at a time & split it into 2 containers: FW & SW & gut-load/add vitamins accordingly.

[jeromecarlyoung]

Thanks for that.

[RTR]

All live foods require some effort on the keeper's part. It is never effective to count on rearing live food in the same tank with the fish. Such live food needs to be in a sump/refugium with passive return to the tank housing the fish to be fed - just is done for FOWLR +skimmer +r macroalgae refugium for SW systems. the critter's breeding area is sheltered from the predator's direct access.

I use live blackworms as conditioning food for the Rainbowfish I breed, and as treats ot conditioning food for some other fish I breed, so they are routinely in stock in the tank room. Originally I used a leftover bar refrigerator from the kid's college, but it died, so I went to smaller portions in more worm boxes on the floor of the tank room. Alternate-day rising woorks for those less heavily stocked boxes as well as it does for more heavily stocked boxes under refrigeration. That is a bit more work than refrigerated worm boxes, but uses no power and requires little extra time as the boxes rinse easily.

I think that whiteworms are a bit fatty for routine use. JMHO, YMMV.

Snail rearing really is so simple it is hardly noticed in a room full of tanks.

FWIW.

[defool89]

I have a 10" fahaka puffer and im no expert. Ive never had to trim its teeth. Weekly crawfish and or snails are enough. I just buy a bag full of crawfish and freeze em. Get a bigger puffer if you want.

[jeromecarlyoung]

Snail rearing really is so simple it is hardly noticed in a room full of tanks.

Thanks

I have limited space so another Tank is a no, no. I think DPs can nip and kill snails without eating them and turn the water bad. Only small snails seem like a possibility for eating, for a cleaner tank as they get chomped up ok.
Also I share my Fridge with others so no worms in the fridge too. Also, spending every weekend in an LFS is not an ideal way to spend your weekends if you have a significant other; think you know what I mean.
I did use Whiteworms for my DP for a year and she was a little big but the correct dosing should keep this newer fish in check.
I presume it's the same with humans as if a person looks fat then feed less. If a person had a higher fat intake than another person but eats the same calories then all things should equal out. Just a theory.
I think a DP's behaviour can be an indicator, as a fish who is hunting a lot could be thought to be slightly hungry and a fish sat in the Wisteria all day could be well fed or over fed.

Got to be honest, my fish is eating something else as I have never him eating anything I've provided and still looks in good shape.
Crazy fish!

Jerry

Thanks for all that.

[RTR]

1. A high fat diet has the same effect om fish that it had on humans: poor health and a shorter life.

2. You cannot successfully culture sufficient food for a fish in the same tank with the predatory fish. Would you try to keep a dog and it's food in a crate? Or a cat in a crate with an open fish tank?

3. If you cannot keep a fish properly, don't try to keep it at all. Re-home the DP or trade it in for a small fish which cam live in a small tank with non-living food.

4. LFS and chains are very poor sources for information on how to keep fish properly. Their bottom line is sales, not healthy long-lived fish. Why do think there are so many fish tanks in yard sales and on Craig's list? The correct answer is poor advice and unrealistic expectations. Any and all pets require care. If you cannot provide proper care, don't buy the pet.

The above may sound hard and perhaps cold, but it unfortunately true.

[jeromecarlyoung]

1. A high fat diet has the same effect om fish that it had on humans: poor health and a shorter life.

2. You cannot successfully culture sufficient food for a fish in the same tank with the predatory fish. Would you try to keep a dog and it's food in a crate? Or a cat in a crate with an open fish tank?

3. If you cannot keep a fish properly, don't try to keep it at all. Re-home the DP or trade it in for a small fish which cam live in a small tank with non-living food.

4. LFS and chains are very poor sources for information on how to keep fish properly. Their bottom line is sales, not healthy long-lived fish. Why do think there are so many fish tanks in yard sales and on Craig's list? The correct answer is poor advice and unrealistic expectations. Any and all pets require care. If you cannot provide proper care, don't buy the pet.

The above may sound hard and perhaps cold, but it unfortunately true.

Mate, with due respect, I have been ok with DPs for about 2 years with no complaints so far and have read for many tens of hours about them and I am quite OCD about it all. I care for these fish a great deal so please don't be under the illusion that I take this lightly.
I think you have missed my point entirely with the Moss Balls as there may well be very small invertebrates within these the Balls itself. The protected Moss Ball structure could in theory become a breeding ground of micro organisms and then become a potential food source for fish. In theory, there may be an amount of Moss Balls which could create enough these microalgae, rotifers, artemia, copepods, daphnia, and microworms to sustain a fish such as a DP. I think there's something in this and if my fish was sluggish or showing signs of hunger or deformities in any way then I'd have a change a tack immediately but the fish is active and is physically very healthy. Caring for DPs has general rules and I'm a big one at banging on about them but there is a lot which is still not known and I was hoping for informed answers on the specific question I put.
My theory, could be a perfect set up where the fish eats the escaped invertebrates who were living and breeding within the Moss Balls, the fish would then digest and excrete the waste to then give back nutrients for more micro organisms to breed. This would effect water changes for sure as there would be less need as the system would recycle itself. This idea originally came form a guy from an LFS who was talking about the perfect set up for a Tank where the whole thing sustains itself. Now seeing my DP in good form with little or no visible food source has kind of made me think about this system.
I got some supplementary worms, in the post, in case you're worried.

As far as fat is concerned then there's this article about human health and fat-
http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/in ... Ud9sTeTI4k

With the above Link, there is much debate in well studied human science about what is a good human diet; a few years ago there was low fat/high carb and recently there was the caveman diet with high fats and protein. I know about high Protein diets, as I used to do cycle racing and having a high Protein/low fat/ lower carb diet, never turned out that I was be thin or muscular but indeed I gained fat. Any unused Protein I consumed was quickly converted in to fat, which again; is bad for health. So if we can't agree on what is good for Human Health then a DP has no chance in this respect. I fed my DP Whiteworms for a year and she was in great shape; that's all I know.

Sorry if this causes offence.

Jerry

[bertie 83]

Please do not take offense by rtrs comments, he will get straight to the point and won't beat around the bush.

[jeromecarlyoung]

Please do not take offense by rtrs comments, he will get straight to the point and won't beat around the bush.

Cheers for that. Seems to be the way on Forums.
I think if I put myself up to be shot on Forums then there'll be a queue of people waiting for the chance!! Happy days!

Jerry

[RTR]

Be sure to post when your high fat diet/moss ball imfusoria diet successfully breeds DPs ad provides them with longer lifespans. Then I will pay attention and compliment you on the achievement. Until then I will continue to recommend a diet of commercially cultured blackworms and home-cultured snails.

[jeromecarlyoung]

Be sure to post when your high fat diet/moss ball imfusoria diet successfully breeds DPs ad provides them with longer lifespans. Then I will pay attention and compliment you on the achievement. Until then I will continue to recommend a diet of commercially cultured blackworms and home-cultured snails.

I'll be amazed if the fish breeds as he's got the tank to himself.
My Dad has got some Statin pills if my fish gets too much Cholestorol, I'll lob one of those in the tank.
Is there a history of high blood pressure and strokes in DPs??
I think you can get stroppy if you can come up with proper answers and then I still don't listen. The point of this thread has been lost because you can't stop getting over excited.

By the way, we got Bloodworm in the UK and not Blackworm; suprised in your pantheon of knowledge, that info escaped you.

Thanks for the non ranting answers, they've been logged in my head so take heart.

Cheers Jerry

Ps- The photo in my avatar is my DP which was fed on Whiteworms, you can see what condition she's in for yourself. Poor thing.

[Pufferpunk]

The point of this thread has been lost