F8 fat puffer

[Yael]

My puffer always looks puffy. I probably have over fed him in an attempt to get him over his shyness but his belly really doesn't go down that much overnight. I'm going to let him fast for the day and see if he loses any of his plumpness but I'm also curious if 'fat' could be an indicator of parasites? I've only seen where 'skinny' is an indicator of parasites.

He's in with some bumblebee gobies and some nerite snails. Although I've offered him a number of food choices including grocery store crab and shrimp, he's not all that interested in them. Mostly he eats freeze dried krill and live black worms. The worms he doesn't eat go into the sand and I often see him hunting them later on. I think the worms also must have had eggs in with them because I've seen the occasional hatch of tiny wormlets which are eaten up pretty quickly by the bbs along with any scraps that might come their way. I haven't seen any nerite babies and the one time I saw bb babies they disappeared quickly. It may well be that the puffer is getting extra food from these sources beyond what I feed him.

Anyway, I've been reading up on treatment for parasites but would rather not put him through a course of drugs if it's just that he's on the porky side.

fyi - he was in full marine when I got him and I slowly brought him to brackish at 1.005 so anything that can't tolerate salt conditions is likely gone from him already.

[G S P Freak]

I doubt it's parasites, but it cannot hurt to treat for them anyways. I also agree that your puffer may be sneaking some side snacks in lol. STOP feeding the krill as a regular food, it lacks very much nutrition and is known to cause lock-jaw. Blackworms are ok as an occasional snack, I feed them to my f8 every so often too. I'd try cultivating your own snails, I grow common pond snails (bladder snails, speedy snails, etc) in a filtered 1 gallon hex tank and it provides enough snails to feed my puffer several every week. I feed my puffer small chunks of raw shell-on shrimp that I cut up when not feeding snails/blackworms. Remember that they need some crunch in their diet to keep the teeth trimmed!
My F8 is always pretty plump after eating but this usually goes down over the course of hours until the next day when his stomach is just flat. Your's may already be overweight from too frequent feeding, I'd recommend feeding only once a day, every other day or two. I give my f8 a rather random feeding schedule to help keep him from getting into a routine and being bored. Say this is a example of 1 week schedule where f = feeding, n = no feeding; Sun- n, Mon- f, Tues- n, Wed- n, Th- f, Fri- f, Sat-n. Mind you this is just an example and is not at all permanent. I may feed one day, feed the next, skip a day, feed, skip 2 days without feeding....etc. Best way to tell, if your puffer has gone a day or two without food and looks like he could use a feeding, feed! As for your bbgs, gl with them. I had 2 in with my f8 and he coexisted with them peacefully for months until just recently. Last week he killed and ate one entire bbg... and this week he killed another and partially ate it. Now, he is fed well enough and does not go hungry, so I attest it to a maturing fish who is becoming more aggressive. Anyways I digress, HTH.

[Yael]

Sometimes the BBs sit on the rock he prefers for resting and he'll scoot up next to them but if they look cross-eyed at him he'll back away. They also have their own shells and other places to hide in that he can't get to so hopefully they won't suffer the fate of yours.

I've tried shell on shrimp - he's not that interested - he'll poke at it but then leave it. I thought (was told) that the krill had enough crunch to help with his teeth/beak. I need to find a source of snails - the nerites in with him don't breed and he hasn't tried to eat them. I think I'll visit a petsmart, I hear they are often infested with pond snails. I guess I'll try some crab although I think I've only seen cooked crab in the grocery store.

btw, he's fasted since yesterday and he still looks pretty roly poly.

[*GSP*Fan*]

I've tried shell on shrimp - he's not that interested - he'll poke at it but then leave it. I thought (was told) that the krill had enough crunch to help with his teeth/beak. I need to find a source of snails - the nerites in with him don't breed and he hasn't tried to eat them. I think I'll visit a petsmart, I hear they are often infested with pond snails. I guess I'll try some crab although I think I've only seen cooked crab in the grocery store.

From my understanding the issue with krill is that it is addictive to puffers ( referred to as puffer crack I believe) but that it would be fine as part of a good varied diet. I don't think it'd do much in terms of keeping teeth trimmed though. Maybe once he opens up more to other foods. I'd just keep trying and offering new/different foods.He may just not be used to the foods and will learn to like them in time. In case you weren't aware or hadn't tried, soaking foods in garlic often makes them more appetizing.

I've had some issues with my puffer (solandri) being a picky eater as well, even with table shrimp, but plan to keep trying. I did try clam (from grocery store) today and that is something she actually showed some nice interest in and might be something else you could try if you haven't already.

Nerites only breed in full marine conditions I believe, maybe high end brackish as well, someone would have to clarify. But I know they don't breed in the conditions an F8 is kept in.

If you run into any issues finding pond or ramshorn snails locally, Ebay is another good place to find them. For whatever reason, I was not able to get either locally and ordered some from Ebay without any issues.

[Yael]

I've heard on nerites everything from full salt to fresh and just heard a talk today at the fish expo from an invert expert. She said that nerites lay in fresh to brackish water but that the newly hatched snails needed a high calcium content to form shells which they tend to get by migrating to higher salt water. Any idea how F8s do in hard water?

I'll try the garlic and get some mussels from the grocery along with some crab. Maybe he just needs to be more hungry. His diet has mostly been black worms which he eats like spaghetti.

[*GSP*Fan*]

I've heard on nerites everything from full salt to fresh and just heard a talk today at the fish expo from an invert expert. She said that nerites lay in fresh to brackish water but that the newly hatched snails needed a high calcium content to form shells which they tend to get by migrating to higher salt water. Any idea how F8s do in hard water?

I'll try the garlic and get some mussels from the grocery along with some crab. Maybe he just needs to be more hungry. His diet has mostly been black worms which he eats like spaghetti.

I know they can tolerate all but from my reading gathered they other successfully bred in marine conditions. Not sure on any more than that. I do have nerites in my saltwater tank, with my toby, but have not seen them lay any eggs. I've seen eggs from my cerith and nassarius though.

Someone else will have to comment on F8s in hard water, I'm not really familiar.

Garlic guard has helped me on a couple occasions. I have heard good things about black worms and plan to try them with my toby, have to look into where I can get them first.

Good luck

[Yael]

My fish store carries live black worms and they'll last just fine in the fridge with a cold water rinse once a day. Nice thing is that if they aren't all eaten they don't die and pollute the tank. They burrow into the sand and the fish get to hunt for them later.

[Pufferpunk]

Are you using a cone feeder for them?

[Yael]

a cone feeder? I don't know what that is.

I just suck up some in a syringe and dribble them into the tank (I don't like touching them).

[RTR]

What size is the tank?

What is the specific gravity?

What are your water changing practices?

What are the tank pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and KH?

Is there any significant current?

F-8s are hunter-predators, they need activity and a high-crunch diet (common pond and/or ramshorn snails).

Live blackworms are good food but zero crunch, and are far too fattening for a staple diet for F-8s. Overweight puffers tend to be less active and live much shorter lives. Cut the live blackworms down to occasional treats and use cone feeder for them. IMHO & IME, home-reared FW snails should be at least 60-75+% of their diet - mine got >>80% snail diets.

They also need very clean high KH water, a visually complex tank layout, and areas with significant current for swimming as well as calmer areas to rest and/or sleep. With that they will live long, active lives (15-20 years or more).

HTH

HTH

[Yael]

What size is the tank? 30gal

What is the specific gravity? 1.005

What are your water changing practices? 30-40%/week

What are the tank pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and KH? pH 8, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, undetectable nitrate because I have a lot of plants in the tank, 13 'drops' for KH

Is there any significant current? yes - puffer likes to hang in the current when he's 'hungry'

F-8s are hunter-predators, they need activity and a high-crunch diet (common pond and/or ramshorn snails). He likes movement for sure - he'll 'hunt' the krill if I put them in the current. I need to find a source for snails. From what you've said the blackworms are too rich for him but he seems to prefer them over pretty much everything else and the BBs also like them. I still don't know what a cone feeder is.

Live blackworms are good food but zero crunch, and are far too fattening for a staple diet for F-8s. Overweight puffers tend to be less active and live much shorter lives. Cut the live blackworms down to occasional treats and use cone feeder for them. IMHO & IME, home-reared FW snails should be at least 60-75+% of their diet - mine got >>80% snail diets. like I said above, just haven't found a source of snails although my apple snails in my cichlid tank seem to be breeding so they might provide some now

They also need very clean high KH water, a visually complex tank layout, and areas with significant current for swimming as well as calmer areas to rest and/or sleep. With that they will live long, active lives (15-20 years or more). I have a very complex tank with wood, rocks with arches and overhangs and plants

HTH

HTH

[Pufferpunk]

http://www.amazon.com/Worm-Feeder-Cone/ ... one+feeder

library/category/feeding/

[JRC3]

I still don't know what a cone feeder is.

A simple 5g bucket with sponge or small HOB filter will do great for breeding pond or ramshorn snails. A heater will speed things up.

[Yael]

Thanks!

So today I bought a crab leg from the grocery - it was funny trying to explain to the woman at the seafood counter why I only wanted one crab leg. I cut off a piece and put it in the tank in the shell. Puffy attacked it and got in at least a few bites to the shell before getting in to some of the meat. I've also got 25 ramshorn snails coming in the mail off ebay and I'll set up a small tank for them. I assume that they don't need heat. I also found a small snail in some plants I got and put that in the tank last night. I didn't see him eat it but this morning it was gone.

[Yael]

My puffer ate his first snail. I got a bag of them from someone on ebay and they laid eggs in the bag. I set up a 5gal aquarium for them so hopefully they'll keep up with my puffer's appetite.