GSP stopped eating two weeks ago

[sammy143]

I use the API master test kit (drops, not strips)
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 20 ppm
Salinity: 1.018
Tank size: 30 gallon w/200 GPH marineland biowheel
Inhabitants: one 3.5" green spotted puffer
Feeding: I feed a small amount am and pm.
I feed him snails, frozen (thawed) blood worms, earthworms, frozen (thawed) squid.
Water Change Schedule: I do a 50% water change once a week and gravel vacuum at the same time. I use Amquel and instant ocean salt with each water change.
Recent changes: more frequent (every three days) water changes (to encourage him to eat??). I have been trying to get the nitrates >20ppm
Aquarium has been set up for two years. I cycled it by adding all the substrate and decorations/filter media from my puffer's previous tank that had been set up for two years.

Hi everyone Spot is my first puffer fish. I've had him for four years. I'm doing my best to take care of him, but I have a lot to learn. I know Spot very well, and I am very worried about him. He has not eaten any of the food I offer him for two weeks now.

He's always been a great eater. He rushes at his food and loves snails best. I usually feed him small snails from my 55 gallon freshwater tank, but I recently started feeding him some larger than usual snails from my outdoor pond. I'm just guessing, but I'm afraid he may have damaged/broken his beak eating them. Set me straight if this is not possible, but I really feel like this could have happened. His overall behavior and activity level have not changed. He is active and not acting sick at all. He just won't eat. I guess this could be a way of "acting sick." I just mean his behavior is normal for him, except he seems frustrated about not eating. I'm stuck on the idea that he hurt his teeth, but I'd really like to hear other problems that could cause similar behavior.

At first, he acted like he wanted to eat. He'd rush at his food, bite at it, but then swim quickly away. He's gradually given up over the past week, and now he just watches me drop food in. He doesn't even swim toward it. My new routine is to offer the food, wait ten minutes, and then scoop it out so it doesn't rot in there.

I've read the dentistry articles, but I don't know how they apply to damaged/broken teeth. Unless someone sends me in a totally different direction, I'm planning to use Finquel to knock him out so I can look in his mouth. Sorry, no pictures so you can evaluate his teeth. There's no way I can photograph him, especially up close of his mouth. He hates the camera and hates people sticking their faces against his tank.

I just don't know what I will do if I find a damaged tooth. Can they get broken and cause pain? How would I deal with that? If it's knocked loose (is this possible?) or something, would I pull it out? Oh my gosh. I probably sound like a total idiot. I need to know what I'm doing before cause more problems messing around with things I have no idea about. I'm not a fish dentist!

Thank you so much for reading all that!

[Pufferpunk]

Sorry this has to be your 1st post. Sounds like you've done everything right by him. Can you get a flashlight & see his mouth? A close up pic would be wonderful!

[JRC3]

Guys, is there a chance that he picked up parasites in his mouth that are preventing him from eating? Maybe from the outdoor pond snails? Is it even posible to pick up IPs from a snail? What about some live ghost shrimp?

This old post made me think of it.

If the dose worked almost immediately, it's most likely the IPs in question are a protozoan that infects the gut initially, but all the way to the mouth in late stage, making it painful to eat.
Which means it's the metronidazole that is the effective ingredient. Flubendazole is also very effective against this kind of IP.

[sgtmyers88]

Have you moved around the tanks decor or changed around the room where the tank resides? Some puffers can be quite neurotic and pout if their scenery changes.

[Pufferpunk]

Guys, is there a chance that he picked up parasites in his mouth that are preventing him from eating? Maybe from the outdoor pond snails? Is it even posible to pick up IPs from a snail? What about some live ghost shrimp?

This old post made me think of it.

If the dose worked almost immediately, it's most likely the IPs in question are a protozoan that infects the gut initially, but all the way to the mouth in late stage, making it painful to eat.
Which means it's the metronidazole that is the effective ingredient. Flubendazole is also very effective against this kind of IP.

Absolutely.

[sammy143]

Thanks so much, everyone! The idea about him picking up some parasite from the pond snails makes a lot of sense. I will try treating him with metronidazole today. I'll let you know how that goes.

I'm sure that I can't get a good picture of his mouth. Sorry. I know that it would be really helpful. He won't let me get close enough and always maintains that sideways pose when he's near the glass. He's a funny guy. I've tried taking a pic while hiding far away and then zooming way in once it's downloaded to my computer. No luck. That's why I feel like I have to resort to anesthetizing him just to look in his mouth. (sigh)

I haven't moved his tank decor around, but I have experienced the "remodel trauma" with Spot. He assumes anything new (or anything that has moved the slightest bit) is trying to kill him. He once turned his belly black for a whole week. I freaked out and tried everything to "fix" him. Turns out, I had gotten some cut flowers and set them near his tank. He started freaking out that same day (hindsight...who would have thought?) I eventually moved the flowers, and he was back to normal within a few hours. I'm assuming he did not like the flowers so close (two feet) to his tank. So, yes. I know how sensitive they can be.

I just feel so sad for him. I wish he could tell me what's wrong I know he's hungry.

Thank you

[JRC3]

Here is the problem, though. How to treat if he isn't eating. Baths/dipping?

[Pufferpunk]

Your fish doesn't drink water, so you'll have to find some way to get this into his body.
library/feeding/problems-feeding-your-puffer/

[Master of Puffers]

Have you moved around the tanks decor or changed around the room where the tank resides? Some puffers can be quite neurotic and pout if their scenery changes.

yeah..I have a couple of them..sigmbu ood is a huge sulky puffer.

[sammy143]

Your fish doesn't drink water, so you'll have to find some way to get this into his body.
library/feeding/problems-feeding-your-puffer/

I think I'll use the Finquel (should arrive on Monday) and see if the problem is his teeth before I try to get meds in him. I can't imagine trying to force feed him. He's very friendly until I get too close, then he's off to his cave. I know I may have to do things he doesn't like in order to help him, but I really want to rule out any problems with his teeth first. Does this make sense?

Thanks, again, for your advice.

[sammy143]

Your fish doesn't drink water, so you'll have to find some way to get this into his body.
library/feeding/problems-feeding-your-puffer/

Spot just pooped a very small amount of white goop. It's not a worm. It is just white, chunky poop. It took a long time coming out. He swam around with it hanging out for a few minutes. Yuck I have no idea what this means, especially since I haven't seen him eat. He could have pooped like this more than once over the past two weeks. I just happened to notice this time. So now I'm again thinking about treating him for internal parasites.

I just read the article on internal parasites again. Is it effective to use metronidazole in the water, or do I have to get it in his stomach for it to work? I'm confused because I thought you could just add it to the whole tank. But since you say that I have to find a way to get in in his body, now I'm trying to figure out how to get it in him. Maybe I could use a tube while he's anesthetized? Is there a specific brand of medication I should use, or are they all the same? Why can't I just add the med to the whole tank?

Thanks

[Pufferpunk]

I'm not sure, considering this is a BW fish. I do know FW fish do not drink water, but SW fish do. Can't hurt to try...

[sammy143]

Oh my gosh, guys! I'm so discouraged about Spot I'd love any encouragement or advice about where to go from here. I'm afraid he's dying. He still hasn't eaten.

The Finquel came today and worked great. I successfully anesthetized him very easily. But I had no luck with trimming his beak with cuticle clippers. The clippers were big, strong ones, but his beak is no joke. It's really thick, and I could only chip away a little at it. I'm an idiot, because I didn't take pictures. I was just so focused on not messing up and cutting him, that I totally forgot about the camera.

But I don't think his beak is overgrown, anyway. I didn't see any signs of injury (maybe from a large snail), and he seemed to have plenty of room to open his mouth to eat. I'm not sure how much beak a gsp should have, but when I pulled his top lip back, he had more than I expected...but, still, I can't imagine that it would prevent him from eating. He was eating big snails shortly before he stopped eating, so his beak length is probably not the problem. Right? I was mainly thinking that he may have injured it on a snail.

While he was out, I got a small tube in his stomach (I think/hope) and gave him a tiny amount of fish vitamins (vita chem), brine shrimp, and a tiny bit of API General Cure powder (this stuff isn't meant for oral dosing). It says it contains 250 mg Metronidazole and 75 mg Praziquantel per packet. But the packets are huge and are meant to treat ten gallons each. So, basically, I have no idea how much med he got. It wasn't much, though. I also treated the whole tank with the API General Cure per the box instructions. I've read the parasites article like ten times, and I tried to use meds mentioned in the article, but I just don't have a good feeling about the whole thing. He's not eating, so any oral med would have to get in via tube. I'm fine with putting him out again to give him a dose of something, but I would have to know it was the right dose and worth the trauma to him. Does that make sense? I don't know what brand/med would be best to give in a very small amount via tube. I'm sure the API had a bunch of filler ingredients. It only listed the two active ingredients, though.

Spot is in his cave looking horrible. I'm so sad I'm just trying to help him, but he doesn't understand. It's hard with fish...you love them so much, but there's always glass between you. You know?

Thanks for all you help!

[sammy143]

Hi, guys. I wrote a post on Monday and have been waiting for it to show up. But I wrote it right after I tried to trim Spot's teeth, so I was a mess. I'm thinking that maybe I didn't actually submit it. So I'm trying to post again. This post will be better, anyway...I'm less freaked out and not crying (at the moment).

I got the Finquel on Monday and had no trouble anesthetizing Spot. I was concerned that he may have injured his teeth on a snail or that his teeth had overgrown, so I wanted to look in his mouth. His teeth didn't look overgrown. I tried to clip off a tiny bit with cuticle clippers, but it was WAY too hard. I guess I'd need a dremel. I didn't take pictures because I forgot. I was so nervous about the whole thing. So, no tooth injury. And he was eating snails shortly before he stopped eating, so it shouldn't be overgrown teeth that are stopping him from eating. Right? Now I'm pretty sure that what JRC3 wrote about Spot having picked up something nasty from my pond snails it right.

While he was anesthetized, I tube fed him a small amount of brine shrimp, vita chem, and the only powdered form of Metronidazole I could find around here. I don't think I gave him a good dose. The brand was API general cure. It says it contains 250 mg Metronidazole and 75 mg Praziquantel per packet. But the packets are huge and are meant to treat 10 gallons of tank water each. I just put a tiny bit of the powder in what I tube fed him (sigh). I'm sure there were a lot of filler ingredients, so he probably didn't get much, if any (?). I also treated his whole tank with the API general cure per the box instructions. I'm supposed to dose the whole tank again tonight and then do a water change in another 48 hours. I guess I'll finish this treatment and see if it does anything. I haven't noticed any improvement so far.

I don't know what to do. He still won't eat. I would have to tube feed him any oral type meds, since he's still not eating. I don't mind doing this. The tube feeding went pretty well. I was thinking about trying to find some levamiasol powder or metronidazole somewhere and tube feeding him that. I'm not sure where to get these. I'll look around, I guess.

He poops little white chunks every once in a while. I looked at it, and it's not a worm...just white poop. I feel like he's deteriorating, not swimming as much, hiding more. His belly is black all the time now. He has always changed his color A LOT. I welcome advice about this, but after two years with him (and driving myself insane trying to keep him white), I just decided that for HIM it was not an indicator of illness or stress. Long story. He's always been black more often than white, but he switches from a jet black belly to a beautiful, perfect, glowing white in a matter of minutes. When he's white, it's really exciting, and my kids and husband are all forced to come see how awesome he looks! Anyway. Now he's black, and I know it means he feels bad.

What would you guys do if this were your puffer? I feel really lost. I feel like I'm losing him

Thanks!

[sammy143]

I just looked at some of Spot's white "poop" under the microscope. I watered it down because it was all in one big chunk. It looks like a bunch of small kind of circular shapes.

I wonder if this is bacteria. All the shapes are very similar. They're not perfect circles, more like ovals made from two smashed together circles. They're all clumped together, and there are also some that look more rod shaped. I love microscopes. I have no idea how to use them or what I'm looking at, though. Having said that, this looks like bacteria to me! Any thoughts?