ID needed - sick puffer - new to forum

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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puffer_puff
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ID needed - sick puffer - new to forum

Post by puffer_puff »

Hi. I'm new here.

I need an ID on a sick puffer, so that I can do what's appropriate for this species of puffer. Secondly, I need some help on relieving whatever ails it.

First, please confirm that this is, in fact, a specimen of Tetraodon fluviatilis. You cannot tell from the pictures, but the eyes are blue. It's about 4.5"-5" long.

Image
Image

Now, as to the "sickness:"
Details:
-it's "panting" heavily at the bottom in one corner of the tank
-new (to me) puffer: have only had it for 2-3 days
-was fine on first day, crushing whole 0.75" snails
-added salt to 1.004 - I used
-I now know that this was too sudden
-would that have killed all the bacteria that's needed in cycled aquarium in the 1-2 days since I added the salt?
-if so, does that mean that my puffer is now in the equivalent of a non-cycled aquarium? (<-- important question)
-added ammonia neutralizer - this might be bad, too!
-why is he "breathing" at the bottom like that?
-could space/room in the tank be a factor? he's in a 36" x 12" x 12" right now - only temporary for two weeks (is this too long?) - approx. 22 gallons.
-I've lowered the SG to 1.002 - should I put it back down to 1.000? Is all the bacteria dead, so either way I'm dealing with an uncycled tank?
-what do I do? please help!

puffer_puff

Postscript: How do I post images in-line (in the message)?
Last edited by puffer_puff on Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Phaedrus
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Post by Phaedrus »

Your links don't work, but here is some info on T fluvitilis (or ceylon puffer) from the pufferlist: http://www.pufferlist.com/puffer/brackp ... ?puffid=14

Panting is usually a sign of illness and impending death. Sounds a lot like an uncycled tank.

Where did the puffer come from? What silinity were they in there?

How did you cycle the tank? What are your paramaters for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?

That's a pretty sharp jump in salinity, there is certainly going to be some kill-off of bacteria. Try and find some Marineland Bio-spira at a LFS. It needs to be refridgerated until use. It contains live bacteria that will re-cycle your tank (or cycle it if it wasn't already). Do a 90% water change before adding it directly to the filter. Do not do another water change for 48 hours.

If you cant find any bio-spira, you'll have to do large daily water changes if your tank is not cycled to dilute the ammonia and nitrite buildup.

you can post inline images with the Image tags surrounding your links.

Image
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Post by puffer_puff »

The links should work now.
Panting is usually a sign of illness and impending death. Sounds a lot like an uncycled tank.
Can I just put the puffer in my 30-gallon community tank? If so, how? The 30-gallon is cycled, and there are snails, and there is cover, and I don't mind if it harasses the fish.
Where did the puffer come from? What silinity were they in there?
LFS. FW.
How did you cycle the tank? What are your paramaters for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?
I didn't cycle the tank. I used old gravel, some old water, and an old filter (basically, I just switched those over to the puffer's tank), so I considered it filtered. Wasn't it?

I think it might be un-cycled now because of the jump in salinity to 1.004. So can I just put the fish in freshwater, into a cycled aquarium?

ammonia: 0.6 mg/L
nitrite: 0.3 mg/L
nitrate: waiting for results
/
you can post inline images with the [img] [/img] tags surrounding your links.
The tags come up around the path, but it's just text that comes out. The directory is supposed to local to my drive, right? And can the path have spaces in it (because mine did)?
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Post by puffer_puff »

nitrate: 20-30 ppm
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Post by Phaedrus »

Your tank is not cycled. The filter media may have been intact bacterial-wise before the bump in salinity, but it certainly is not now.

It may be tempting to put him into the community tank until you can get this tank sorted, but realize that you will be putting those fish at risk to diseases like ich and other parasites often carried in on fish from the LFS. If you accept that risk, go for it, but be prepared to deal with any sickness that arises.

If you don't want to risk it, start doing big water changes. 50%-75% twice a day or more. You could also bring over some of the fitler media from the established tank to help give it a boost.

Your only other alternative is to find some Bio-spira. If you can find it, the problem is solved.

The links still don't work. Can you post them to photobucket or flickr or something? You have to upload the photos to someplace on the internet. You can't link to a file on your computer.
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puffer_puff
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Post by puffer_puff »

Thank you both for your help thus far!
Your tank is not cycled. The filter media may have been intact bacterial-wise before the bump in salinity, but it certainly is not now.
I thought not. The SG is no 1.002. Would it help to put a filter on the tank that came from a FW tank? The bacteria won't be killed by that little of a difference, right?
Secondly, I added some "Stability" ("New tank stabilization system") by Seachem to the tank. Will that help?
It may be tempting to put him into the community tank until you can get this tank sorted, but realize that you will be putting those fish at risk to diseases like ich and other parasites often carried in on fish from the LFS. If you accept that risk, go for it, but be prepared to deal with any sickness that arises.
I think I just might do this.
If you don't want to risk it, start doing big water changes. 50%-75% twice a day or more. You could also bring over some of the fitler media from the established tank to help give it a boost.
I've done two 75% water changes today already to get the SG back to 1.002. I've got a filter from an established tank that's been there from the drop from 1.004 to 1.002, but now I think that I killed off those bacteria, too. Did I? Should I bring over yet another filter from an established tank - will those bacteria survive the 0.002 difference?
Your only other alternative is to find some Bio-spira. If you can find it, the problem is solved.
I went to two stores today. It was discontinued from one (the big chain store), and the other doesn't carry it.
The links still don't work.
The links work for me, and I have them up on a public space (Yahoo "Briefcase" just as you're using Shaw's space, and the folder's set to public).
Can you post them to photobucket or flickr or something? You have to upload the photos to someplace on the internet. You can't link to a file on your computer.
I have them uploaded to a place on the 'Net. I'm going to try your photobucket suggestion.
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Post by puffer_puff »

The image problem has been fixed.
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Post by Phaedrus »

Any more established filtration you can add would be good.

Stability may help in the short term, but it won't help cycle your tank.

Keep up with those water changes.

The pictures work now. It looks like a ceylon to me, but I could be wrong.
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Post by Pufferpunk »

Do not add this fish to your community tank. You will be extremely upset, when you wake up to the devastation your puffer will incur on your other fish. Please read the article on the Green Spotted Puffer, in our Library. This is your fish.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Post by puffer_puff »

I'm a little confused, as your posts conflict. One of you claims that it's a Ceylon/Green, and the other says it's a green spotted!

Where in the library is the article?

I was thinking of dividing the community tank with a plastic tank divider, or dividing a 25-gallon into two with a tank divider.
Last edited by puffer_puff on Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Phaedrus »

I should have mentioned the agression problem in addition to the disease problem. I hoped disease would have been enough to disuade.

I also stand corrected on the ID. I'm still gaining experience in that department. :p
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Post by puffer_puff »

This may be shocking, but I would care more if something happened to the puffer than to the community fish.
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Post by puffer_puff »

Pufferpunk, what is it about my puffer that makes it not a fluviatilis, but a nigroviridis?

Please differentiate these:
1. Ceylon/Green Puffer (Chelonodon fluviatilis)
2. Spotted Green Puffer (Chelonodon nigroviridis, Tetrodon nigroviridis)

You say mine's a Green Spotted Puffer, but is it a Green (Spotted) Puffer (#1 above), or a Spotted Green Puffer (#2 above)?

Thanks so much!
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Post by Phaedrus »

You can see pictures and fact sheets on both here: http://www.pufferlist.com/brackindex.htm

a ceylon would have larger bands accross the top, where as the GSP is more leopard spotted. Looking at your pictures again, I totally should have based my decision off of that.

What else is in your community tank?

Moving over a filter or filter media, and doing water changes should be enough to get the levels under control, that way you don't have to risk the community tank at all.
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Post by Pufferpunk »

The common name for the T fluviatilis is green puffer or Ceylon puffer. Yours is a green spotted puffer, T nigroviridis.

http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/ ... togsp.html
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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