GH, KH?

[Mickle]

Ok so what values should I be getting?
I know I live in a pretty hard water area but what would be optimum for a T.cochinchinensis?
Thanks

[Pufferpunk]

You couldn't kill those puffers if they lived in the toilet (just kidding...). As long as you do regular water changes, I wouldn't worry about those details. I never test for those in any of my tanks.

[Bred]

KH should be around 3 degrees or greater to buffer against changes in pH. The water out of your tap probably fits this bill, so you should have no need of additives... Just water changes as PP says.

[Mickle]

thanks just making sure, every thing seems fine but normally you dont get much notice when they go skewiff

[Tihsho]

I don't test for gH and kH anymore. I got a de-ionizer and use the de-ionized water in all my tanks.

[RTR]

DI water is not suitable for maintaining a tank without supplemental addition of electrolytes and buffering compounds. Using straight DI for a puffer is a death sentence, and poor aquarium practice for most fish.

Puffers are second division fish, the family arose in the ocean and later moved into FW all over the world in the tropics. As such, they are quite adaptable to water parameters, but not to water quality. Tap pH, KH, and GH will do for most of the family so long as there is sufficient alkalinity (KH) to support the water from pH crashes in the face of these fish's high bioloads, as bred has already pointed out. Doing water modification with strong reason is frequently shooting yourself in the foot. Don't.

[Tihsho]

Oh, the damn LFS lied to me again then. They said that all the fish they keep are in DI water (I kept bringing back fish from that LFS and they would die next day till I kept them in DI water) so for all the fish I get from there its all DI. My puff tanks are not DI I just have regular water in there with corries in there to keep the bacteria alive. Thankz for the heads up.

[Myaj]

Tihsho, are you sure you don't mean RO water? (reverse osmosis) A lot of people do use that.

[PetPirate]

I use RO/DI water for my freshwater tanks, as my tapwater contains nitrites (yes, that's right, NO2).

I use (a weeny tiny bit of) baking soda to replenish KH and (a miniscule, tiny amount of) Kent RO-right to replenish GH (although this usually tests far too low, at about 3 despite a conductivity meter showing a high TDS of about 200 ppm -- any input on this and which one to heed would be appreciated).

It takes some time to get used to doing this accurately - I lost some fish while I was trying to get it right.

[RTR]

The situation jhong describes is classic. Don't do water mods unless there is compelling reason for doing so, but if there is such compelling reason, do it right. Dump most of the mineral content of the water by RO or DI, or both by RODI, and reconstitute as required for the fish that you keep. And that is not a task to be undertaken lightly, and involves a good bit of trial and error. Referecences saying that some particular fish "needs" pH X or KH Y is not a valid reason. Also, do not try to kid yourself that you can correct basic water problems by simply adding things (magic bullets pushed by the LFS) to tap water. The chemistry involved does not work that way most of the time. It does work for chlorine/chloramines (both being additives themselves, not naturally in the water but added by the utility), but not for much else.

If you must go that route, expect to spend more than the cost of a tank setup on systems (RO, DI) and storage containers and equipment (vessels, pumps, valves, mineral supplements) to process the water to usability. Plus the test kits and devices of sufficient accuracy to guide you through the water mods.

Monitoring KH is one of the tests I do on a regular basis, but not routinely on any given tank. On new setups, and again at maturity of any given setup, I test KH to be sure that water partials are maintaining the tank properly, just as I also test for nitrate. Once the setup is confirmed stable, testing is only when thing appear "off", or when I have made significant changes to the tank and need to reconfirm stability.

[PetPirate]

Not much choice with nitrite-laden tapwater.

I have a handle on KH with the bicarb... no problem, it's always 3-4 (I inject CO2). Easy to measure.

But the GH is a different story... liquid tests say it is way low (3dGH!), while the TDS meter (tested directly in the tank and in a cup, to see if volume had an effect -- and was surprised that readings were the same. This thing measures conductivity after all) shows about 220ppm!

I understand that the GH test will not pick up all minerals (and the TDS test will only pick up ionic particles)... so which one should I heed? If the GH is really 3, I would like to get it up around 5-6. But if that doubles TDS to over 400ppm, the rams would not fare well.

I have driftwood in the tank. The "tank" is small -- actually one 15g and one 5g refugium.

Using my eyes as opposed to tests, the tank looks fine, healthy enough, but the fish are not as active as they have been in the past.

Sorry for the hijack - but hopefully it is useful.

[Tihsho]

Tihsho, are you sure you don't mean RO water? (reverse osmosis) A lot of people do use that.

Actually you might be right. I swore the canister that attatches to the faucet works as DI though.

[RTR]

As Ca++ and/or Mg++ are known to interfere with Ram egg membranes, I'd be very conservative on that and hold at the lower level. There I would go with the GH test, as it is more specific for those two ions.

The adults are relatively insensitive, it is the eggs that are the real problem.