Target Puffer genus designation.

[RVS]

Hi there! just back from work vacation ñ_ñ, i was just beeing curious about target puffer genus, i´ve been searching and seems to be a lot of confusion about it... so i decide to ask in the best puffer forum i know specially with Monotrete genus, wich appear with only one member: Monotrete Leiurus at fish base.... ¿does any one know or have a list of the valid FW puffers genus?

[RTR]

Corvus?

[RVS]

Corvus?

May it be

[Pufferpunk]

Corvus PMed.

[Corvus]

Yep, we've debated this a lot on the forum a few years ago, I will try to find the old threads. Fishbase is not up to date with regard to this issue, especially the works of Kottelat, who is THE expert for Asian freshwater puffer taxonomy, have not been incorporated, yet.

[Corvus]

Look here:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=10099&p=101853

leiurus was added in the meantime, and two other changes happened (new species recognized) I don't have at hand right now, but at another computer.

[RVS]

Oh PERFECT! its nice to know these people...

Thanks a lot, i remember i saw Maurice Kottelat´s Fishes of laos on line, but can remember where, i´d like to adquire this book too cuz i have some doubt
this "Tetraodon cutcutia" that looks just like a Monotrete.

Thank you again for the help you are a very effective team.

[Corvus]

"Tetraodon cutcutia" that looks just like a Monotrete.

Yes that's probably the proper genus as soon as someone publishes something new on this species.

[bertie 83]

The knowledge here is immense, I learn so much daily

[Troender]

Corvus always impresses me with his knowledge.

[Corvus]

Let's stop the laudatio, I'm not the one doing the work, I'm just reading it.

Here's the update:

Tan, H. H. and M. Kottelat 2009: The fishes of the Batang Hari drainage, Sumatra, with description of six new species. Ichthyological Exploration of Freshwaters v. 20 (no. 1): 13-69.

has

Monotrete leiurus
Monotrete hilgendorfii
Monotrete bergii
Monotrete ocellaris

Yes, at some point we might need to re-do some of the IDs of the target puffers, because of the 3 last ones.

[RVS]

Ok! thanks corvus.
No problem with Monotrete leiurus , but i haven´t seen any of the other 3 (actually never heard about them until now), are there photography of these species on that Ichthyological Exploration report?

I think i will purchase the contribution (here: pdf@pfeil-verlag.de) and also the one you once linked about Auriglobus&Chonerhinos species, cuz this is getting interesting

[Corvus]

I don't have it at hand here, so I can't tell for sure if there were pics. Can't find it right now (if I ever had it at all), only found my notes.

Pictures of hilgendorfii are in the aqualog by the way and the other two are also found in older literature. They were later thought to be synonyms of other target species, but Kottelat showed that this is not the case and that they are valid species.

[RVS]

Ok, undestood, i´ll take the risk with that report, anyway, with or without photography it will be a good document to own.
So, lets say i get the Monotrete ID ok:

M. abei: http://www.kugelfischwelt.de/bilder/joo ... 806528.jpg

M. baileyi: http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w78/ ... 1177050035

M. cambodgiensis: http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/ ... 368881.jpg

M. cochinchinensis: http://www.kugelfischwelt.de/bilder/joo ... 803856.jpg

M. suvattii: http://www.kugelfischforum.de/typo3temp ... 5cf8b0.jpg

M. turgidus: : http://www.pufferfish.nl/kogelvissen/im ... rgidus.jpg

M. leiurus: http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/ ... CN4270.jpg

M. palembangensis: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12 ... 5.jpg/sr=1

¿okay?
i hope to se those 3 described by Kottelat, soon.

[Corvus]

Your IDs seem correct, I'd often use more than one picture, though.

For M. abei I'd use this one:

http://www.dhracer.co.uk/public_ftp/fish/abei.jpg , where you can see how orange and red the spots can be

For M. cochinchinensis I'd use one with a really clear target:

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... 921c67.jpg

For M. turgidus I'd use one where the target blends in with the other spots:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/Pu ... -08-07.jpg

and for M. leiurus something like this:

http://www.kugelfischforum.de/typo3temp ... ea581a.jpg or download.php?id=421&mode=view

The first/oldest illustrations I've seen of this species did not show a target at all, but only the polygons. In later works the showed a target like the second leiurus pic I linked to.

The green leiurus posted by you, I know we IDd it as such on this forum. But with the newer info this might be something else (M. hilgendorfii perhaps).