Congo vs GSP

[rosslewisbrown]

I always assumed I had a pair of GSPs and planned on increasing the salinity in their tanks, however, having read this I'm no longer sure:

http://puffernet.tripod.com/confusion.html

I've just spent quite some time scrutinising my fish and from the body shape I am now thinking I may have a congo puffer.

I don't know where they were imported from, I sort of got them by accident when I asked my usual supplier to order me some figure 8's and these babies turned up.

One other thing which makes me think I might have congo puffs is they're not aggressive in the slightest - after a bit of research it seems GSP's are pretty territorial and vicious with other fish, whereas congos are pretty mild mannered, apparently.

So, can the link above be trusted? I know congo puffers are really rare in the aquarium trade, but rare doesn't necessarily mean they're non-existent.

p.s. regarding the spines, I can't see any, but my eyesight isn't the best. One of them is in a bad mood today and has greyed out his belly a little, I can see little white spots on his belly so not sure if these could be spines???

Thanks in advance for the help

[Pufferpunk]

LOL, that site is the absolute worst site on the net for puffers, especially for ID! You have a GSP. There hasn't been a Congo puffer available in the aquarium trade in over 20 years. Sorry you spent so much time on this!

[GSPicthus]

Some here say that it is impossible that they aren't imported anymore. I don't know how they know that. But I think I had one also it lived many many years happily with no salt and cherry barb tank mates. Its behavior and shape and coloration was different from any other puffer I had since. This happened all by mistake because it was before I had internet and really knew anything about keeping puffers.

So I would say it is a possibility but there is no way of telling for sure. I would love to see some pics.

[Pufferpunk]

The LONG spines of a Congo's belly are easily visible. Believe me, there is too much violent unrest in the Congo for people to be shipping fish out of there. I've been doing this a long time. No one's seen one for ever.

[Pufferpunk]

The LONG spines of a Congo's belly are easily visible. Believe me, there is too much violent unrest in the Congo for people to be shipping fish out of there. I've been doing this a long time. No one's seen one forever.

[rosslewisbrown]

I agree GSPicthus, it's the opinion of one person in one area of the world. So we don't actually know anything regarding the import and export of these fish.

Incidentally, I've seen T.miurus, which are from the Democratic Republic of Congo, available in shops.

PufferPunk - do you know where I can find a picture of the spines? And if that site is the worse for identifying species, what would be better for me to look at?

Thanks guys.

[bertie 83]

Upload a picture to us here, we can I.D it for you.

[Pufferpunk]

I agree GSPicthus, it's the opinion of one person in one area of the world. So we don't actually know anything regarding the import and export of these fish.

LOL, 1 person who has been running a pufferfish site for 12 years, where folks from all over the world post!

[Pufferpunk]

There is a good pic of the spines on the Congo, in Dr Ebert's Pufferbook. Does your puffer have the bright yellow/green head? The schoutedeni doesn't have that: http://fishbase.org/summary/Tetraodon-schoutedeni.html

[RTR]

LOL! I cannot believe that site is still running. A huge +1 to ALL of PP's comments on the pathetic absurdity of that site. When I first came onto the hobby Web, that site was one of the worst available. It still is unchanged.

Plus I also strongly agree on her comments on the long-term unavailability of true Congo spotted puffers and the relative ease of identifying them. I may be one of the few hobbyists still active who actually had one - repeat one - a couple of generations ago. I never saw another. I suspect that it has been a lot more than 20 years since they have been seen in the trade at all. Reports to the contrary are wishful thinking. Any reference to that particular site is unfortunately a pathetic and rather sad joke.

GSPs can be maintained many years in FW. A lot of us have done it. I certainly did when I was young. It is not the best technique and will not keep them as healthy and happy as well as BW or SW, but that was long ago when we did not know any better.

Believe what you will. Beliefs are personal. But until you can show us a clear shot of those characteristic belly spines, no knowledgeable hobbyists will accept any fish as a Spotted Congo on the basis of "configuration" or behavior. Those are of little import in identification. Like the dorsal markings which give Figure 8 puffers their common name, those also are worthless for ID.

HTH

[GSPicthus]

I have been curious about this subject for a long time. Mine didn't have the belly spines unless puffed up. Mine was all yellow never just having the green and yellow spot on top of the head as we all know is common of a GSP.

Are there any other ways to tell the two apart? I have read the belly spines are a myth promoted on the internet. I am not saying it is or isn't because I don't know. The one I had was colored different, shaped different, and behaved different from the GSP's I have now.

[Corvus]

Those belly spikes I often read about on this forum are NOT characteristic of T. schoutedeni. And they won't become by repeating.

Actually they are not visible on any of the now available confirmed pictures or specimens including those widely available by the Ebert's aqualog and the proper descriptions of this species. This species was not rare in trade about 25 years or so ago and we received them a number of times. I don't recall any spines visible in unpuffed state whatsoever.

The spikes are only visible when the puffer puffs and then not only on the belly, but almost everywhere, just as on most tetraodonts. They are not very long and can not be used for differentiation in this case.

I think we discussed this a number of times on this forum, so a forum search will likely bring up more.

T. schoutedeni looks nothing like a GSP, rather like a small T. mbu with spots and a somewhat mottled back. Pretty clear when you look at a few pics.

You can also look at the nostrils/narines, T. schoutedeni like all African species has two pointed, spike-like narines on each side, while GSPs like all puffers from the fluviatilis group has two short stalks with round flaps on top of them.

[Corvus]

PS: T. schoutedeni are not exported since more than 20 years. You cannot compare trade of them with trading T. miurus of which the population is magnitudes larger and which is much more wide spread. A honest wholetrader will tell you that you cannot order T. schoutedeni, a not-so-honest-one will sell you some GSPs from Singapore or another big marketplace, where GSPs are sometimes labelled as T. schoutedeni charging a much higher price. There's always someone buying them...

When you are puzzled by the ID of a specific specimen, send a picture. They are really not difficult to tell apart.

[Corvus]

Another PS:

GSPs are so wide spread in Asia, it is more than likely from much empiric evidence, that they are more than one (likely more than 3) different species/subspecies or at least regional variations. Just think about the properly described T. kretamensis and T. sabahensis, which especially when young everybody would ID as GSP. So, don't be surprised if you note differences between GSPs from different or mixed up batches.

[GSPicthus]

Another PS:

GSPs are so wide spread in Asia, it is more than likely from much empiric evidence, that they are more than one (likely more than 3) different species/subspecies or at least regional variations. Just think about the properly described T. kretamensis and T. sabahensis, which especially when young everybody would ID as GSP. So, don't be surprised if you note differences between GSPs from different or mixed up batches.

That Makes Sense.