Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
My recommendation would be to build up the main display again, run some carbon, put in the box fish, and keep the 2nd tank as a QT / hospital tank. I am not familiar with the medicine you have mentioned but many anti bacterial meds will have a negative impact on your biofilter. Thus keep the meds out of the display tank.
I am just re-watching the vids. That looks like it is on the interior of the cornea. It reminds my of something my wife had a while back. To the naked eye it looked like a white film developing, but under a microscope, it was VERY vascular. It was extremely odd. The doctors didn't know what it was and basically gave her some meds and eye drops and said "try this" and it worked. It took about 6 months to recover. I'm not saying that is this case, but just similar.
I am just re-watching the vids. That looks like it is on the interior of the cornea. It reminds my of something my wife had a while back. To the naked eye it looked like a white film developing, but under a microscope, it was VERY vascular. It was extremely odd. The doctors didn't know what it was and basically gave her some meds and eye drops and said "try this" and it worked. It took about 6 months to recover. I'm not saying that is this case, but just similar.
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
I agree with the others. Leave the main tank alone and do the WC's needed, maybe add a uv if your afraid that it is somekind of bacterial disease, add carbon in the filter or sump in case of a cowfish toxins leakin into the tank, sepperate the porcupine into a hospital tank and treat him there but not the cowfish. Cowfish needs not to be stressed.
Chris,
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Nuclear_Glitter
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Do a Google search of "stressed boxfish release poison". Everything says they release the poison.
Why are you even risking it? Even if you're not completely sure that they do or don't, there's a possibility, so why even take the chance?
Even in Google scholar there is studies that show boxfish DO release poison. Even if he doesn't cause your puffer to go blind, he could KILL you puffer, which no meds will cure.
Anyway, as far as the medicine you're using, you need to make sure it has no copper in it, and it may or may not work. You can try it, but it's not going to replace the vitamins your puffer is lacking.
Why are you even risking it? Even if you're not completely sure that they do or don't, there's a possibility, so why even take the chance?
Even in Google scholar there is studies that show boxfish DO release poison. Even if he doesn't cause your puffer to go blind, he could KILL you puffer, which no meds will cure.
Anyway, as far as the medicine you're using, you need to make sure it has no copper in it, and it may or may not work. You can try it, but it's not going to replace the vitamins your puffer is lacking.
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal." -- Henry Ford
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
N.G +1 on the toxins.
copper is ok as long as there are no inverts in the tank and it is a pure hospital tank. Copper is typically used to treat IP's or external parasites. This puffer isn't showing signs of either. So the med may be safe. May, being the key word.....
copper is ok as long as there are no inverts in the tank and it is a pure hospital tank. Copper is typically used to treat IP's or external parasites. This puffer isn't showing signs of either. So the med may be safe. May, being the key word.....
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
He has gotten a hold of Kelly at Marine Depot.
She is much better at this than we are. We can only guess at the causes and remedies. She most likely knows.
She is much better at this than we are. We can only guess at the causes and remedies. She most likely knows.
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TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
I can't move the cow into a separate tank, I haven't got any. The 3rd is occupied with corals, 4th with a small puffer. Not feeling like buying another one for the cow now. So far the cow looks far from stressed, I would say that from all the fish I ever seen this one shows the most careless attitude. Also, Lactoria Cornuta seems to be one with the lowest toxin of the boxfish family.
Had this cowfish with other 3 cows at some point, the rest used to fight each other, not this one. Perhaps worth mention that all of those 3 other cows died unexpectly sharing same scenario. While one day they were fine, the next day they couldn't swim and get stuck into the powerhead. That would affect only one at a time, the remaining were in perfect shape. I recall first two dying in about 3 days interval while the last after some weeks. They have been together only for 1 month or so. However, I have a friend who lost a cowfish in extaclty the same way, showing the same symphotms, and it was the only one in his aquartium. It seems they are prone to some internal parasites, I have never digg into it to find out more. Overall, I would say a difficult fish to keep.
Apart from Thomson published study in 1964 all I can read are hobbyist impressions. Just wondering if someone ever after such 'wipe-out' event got the water tested for the toxin and published the results. Reports are contradictory, however there is no case of poisionong ending in fish blindness, from all reports they either survived or died.
Back on topic, feeding a variety now, althought the puffer doesn't really like the new ones, eating mostly same old mussel. Found Selcon, adding it to each meal. Treating samll tank with Myxazin, started today, will last for the next 5 days.
Any feedback/advice is welcomed.
Had this cowfish with other 3 cows at some point, the rest used to fight each other, not this one. Perhaps worth mention that all of those 3 other cows died unexpectly sharing same scenario. While one day they were fine, the next day they couldn't swim and get stuck into the powerhead. That would affect only one at a time, the remaining were in perfect shape. I recall first two dying in about 3 days interval while the last after some weeks. They have been together only for 1 month or so. However, I have a friend who lost a cowfish in extaclty the same way, showing the same symphotms, and it was the only one in his aquartium. It seems they are prone to some internal parasites, I have never digg into it to find out more. Overall, I would say a difficult fish to keep.
Apart from Thomson published study in 1964 all I can read are hobbyist impressions. Just wondering if someone ever after such 'wipe-out' event got the water tested for the toxin and published the results. Reports are contradictory, however there is no case of poisionong ending in fish blindness, from all reports they either survived or died.
Back on topic, feeding a variety now, althought the puffer doesn't really like the new ones, eating mostly same old mussel. Found Selcon, adding it to each meal. Treating samll tank with Myxazin, started today, will last for the next 5 days.
Any feedback/advice is welcomed.
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Nuclear_Glitter
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Let us know how everything turns out. Let us know how the medicine works. Good luck! =]
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
This is gonna end in tears I assure you. The puffer will keep nipping, probably when you are not looking
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Nuclear_Glitter
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Any update? Any signs your puffer is doing better?
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TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Situation is same, from what I have gathered so far it seems the puffer went into a bad shape due poor nutrition (only shrimp and clam for a very long period of time). Apparently, with a better diet he may recover some of the eye sight.
Still waiting a couple of more replies, Steve the owner of a very good shop here in UK asked some guys at the Interzoo in Germany last week but it seems no one really knows about it. Tried to book one of the best UK vet clinic but after an initial phone call explaining the situation they have declined their competence.
Overall not really showing any progress, no one seems to have a clue about it.
Still waiting a couple of more replies, Steve the owner of a very good shop here in UK asked some guys at the Interzoo in Germany last week but it seems no one really knows about it. Tried to book one of the best UK vet clinic but after an initial phone call explaining the situation they have declined their competence.
Overall not really showing any progress, no one seems to have a clue about it.
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
I also had the Same Q on Marine Depot. I am surprised that Kelly hasn't chimed in 
p.s.
that site you pointed to was a bogus site. Trust me on that one.
p.s.
that site you pointed to was a bogus site. Trust me on that one.
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TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Some updates...
Using Selcon and Vita-Chem, some improvement in the past week, still not seeing food into the water but now follows the stick and pick the food, follows the finger outside the aquarium, panics when cleaning the bottom of the tank because can distinguish the pipe, hidding under a rock when turning lights on.
Last days, another issue. With some of the eyesight recovered, he started to bite the live rock, circling around it like 'seeing' something he could eat and then hard biting at it that I can hear it breaks loud foots away of the aquarium. Any chance to damage his teeth now?
Using Selcon and Vita-Chem, some improvement in the past week, still not seeing food into the water but now follows the stick and pick the food, follows the finger outside the aquarium, panics when cleaning the bottom of the tank because can distinguish the pipe, hidding under a rock when turning lights on.
Last days, another issue. With some of the eyesight recovered, he started to bite the live rock, circling around it like 'seeing' something he could eat and then hard biting at it that I can hear it breaks loud foots away of the aquarium. Any chance to damage his teeth now?
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
This is his normal way to do "self dentistry".
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
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TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
I think this applies to those who can see what they are biting at.Pufferpunk wrote:This is his normal way to do "self dentistry".
Anyway he seems to have stop doing that.
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
+1Pufferpunk wrote:This is his normal way to do "self dentistry".
Chris,
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He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson