Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
- Iliveinazoo
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Shrimp and mussels contain thiaminase which breaks down the thiamin in the food and hence cause a vitamin B1 deficiency. It is conceivable that your puffer is suffering from vitamin B1 deficiency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine
Edit: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/ ... minase.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine
Edit: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/ ... minase.htm
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Nuclear_Glitter
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Oh no, I think the total blindness happened very quick, but I think the damage was done over a period of time. I think the only chance for recovery at this point would be to start feeding a much better diet and vitamins.
Search local reef clubs for better setup deals.
Search local reef clubs for better setup deals.
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal." -- Henry Ford
- FADE2BLACK_1973
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Theresa Ulrich had a great article on cowfishes many years ago and she was the one that gave me great advice about cowfishes and boxfishes. Yes, talked to her directly years ago. She stated that adding carbon in the filters will help absorb the cowfishes toxins if or when released. And cowfishes and boxfishes have been known to release toxins into tanks and even a totally nuke the whole tank, killing all the fishes and the cowfish itself. I wish I could find that article online but still no luck. Even the website is gone.
Btw, the others are doing their job help giving the advice about the vitamins
Btw, the others are doing their job help giving the advice about the vitamins
Chris,
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
-
TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
That was an excellent reading, thanks for sharing.Iliveinazoo wrote:Shrimp and mussels contain thiaminase which breaks down the thiamin in the food and hence cause a vitamin B1 deficiency. It is conceivable that your puffer is suffering from vitamin B1 deficiency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine
Edit: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/ ... minase.htm
It makes sense, poor nutrition over long period of time consisting in frozen food mostly, some level of No3 along with the shock created by the two shrimps meal sounds like a possible scenario.Nuclear_Glitter wrote:Oh no, I think the total blindness happened very quick, but I think the damage was done over a period of time. I think the only chance for recovery at this point would be to start feeding a much better diet and vitamins.
Search local reef clubs for better setup deals.
Ordered today Vita-Chem, just found Selcon at a store near by, going to buy one tomorrow. Already started diet change although yesterday's meal of fresh scallop with garlic wasn't well received (regurgired most of it), today's attempt with clam and a new one (I forgot the name) was a failure (just chew no swallow). Reading that it may be wise not to feed anything for more days after such diet event. Puffer looks very well, not showing any signs of low energy level.
-
TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Video of the puffer, it may give some clues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7PdB65NIKA
Eye closeup #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN2FbIQDSBc
Eye closeup #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWFA9KaAp4c
Eye closeup #3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKhgJKUS-Y
Found this: http://petcareeducation.com/fish/common ... -pet-fish/
It is possible to have 'Corneal edema'?
Eye closeup #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN2FbIQDSBc
Eye closeup #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWFA9KaAp4c
Eye closeup #3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKhgJKUS-Y
Found this: http://petcareeducation.com/fish/common ... -pet-fish/
It is possible to have 'Corneal edema'?
- FADE2BLACK_1973
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
So you are refering to the cloudy like film over his eyes being something wrong with his eyes? Looks normal for a purcupine to me. Evevyone I ever owned had the same looking eyes.
Last edited by FADE2BLACK_1973 on Tue May 15, 2012 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris,
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
-
TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
No, that is normal, every puffer I saw got it. I am refering to the more darker blue color with no blue gaze which is common in puffers, he lost it.
- FADE2BLACK_1973
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Chris,
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
- FADE2BLACK_1973
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Figure 8's
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Yellow long horn Cowfish
Striped Burrfish - Location (country): United States of America
- Location: Kentucky
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
He looks like he is getting around pretty good if you think he is blind. He would act totally different is he was blind.
Chris,
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
He who knows best knows how little he knows - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
seperate the box fish, up the water changes, and soak the foods in vitamin water (as you have been doing). Recovery always takes time. Damage is almost instant.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
I have moved the puffer with the cow into a small 100L Interpret aquarium along with some live rock. The sand in the main aquarium was too dirt I can't get to lower the No3. The plan is to empty it, clean existing sand by washing it using the water from the aquarium, fill the tank back with water, put the sand and the rock back. Allow a couple of days then move the fish back into it.
While they are into the smaller tank with no sand but some rock, I can treat the water easily using Myxazin. I will do a daily 30-50% water change until the main tank is ready. I got a recommendation to use an antibiotic, Metronidazole, has anyone used it with puffers?
Thanks.
While they are into the smaller tank with no sand but some rock, I can treat the water easily using Myxazin. I will do a daily 30-50% water change until the main tank is ready. I got a recommendation to use an antibiotic, Metronidazole, has anyone used it with puffers?
Thanks.
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
STOP! Do not do a complete teardown! It will cause the tank to cycle and likely kill your fish when you put them back! Saltwater Aquariums need much more time to reestablish stable water conditions after such a massive cleaning!
WARNING: Puffers are mischievous little blimps with enchanting powers. You may not be content with having just one.
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TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
Could you please explain why this would happen?sgtmyers88 wrote:STOP! Do not do a complete teardown! It will cause the tank to cycle and likely kill your fish when you put them back! Saltwater Aquariums need much more time to reestablish stable water conditions after such a massive cleaning!
To my knowledge, most of the bacteria lives in the sand and rock and not in the water column. Rising the sand and rock into the same water, then do full water change shouldn't kill all of the benefical bacteria. With no bilogical load, there shouldn't be any spike in ammonia levels.
Thanks.
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Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
So now you put both of the fish that you need to separate into an even smaller tank, placing your sick puffer with a fish that will poison it if it becomes stressed, which quarantining tends to do?
You need to separate them and THEN decide how you want to treat your puffer.
You need to separate them and THEN decide how you want to treat your puffer.
-
TheShield
Re: Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp
I know you want the best for my fish guys but could we please drop the idea of separating the fish, I have spoke with many people during the last day including vets, respectable owners of aquatic stores, medics and not even one sustained this theory. Never the less, if that was to happen, it won't induce blindness in puffer but rather kill it, considering its small size and small water volume where they live.
I would appreciate if someone has an opinion about the medicine I was reffering to, Myxazin and Metronidazole or any good antibacterial and/or antibiotic known to work well on puffers.
Thanks.
I would appreciate if someone has an opinion about the medicine I was reffering to, Myxazin and Metronidazole or any good antibacterial and/or antibiotic known to work well on puffers.
Thanks.