Porcupine fish, going blind after eating frozen shrimp

[Nuclear_Glitter]

Okay, I just spent quite a bit of time researching this problem to see if there was anything that could be done. The loss of eyesight is common in porcupine puffers, and it's generally from bad nutrition, and lack of vitamins, or poor water quality. Fish need Vitamins D, A and to some extent E to maintain good eye health.

If you start getting better foods and soaking them in the vitamins there is a chance your puffer can regain some eyesight, Puffers eyes continue to develop over time, and because of this he could start to see some again. It will probably never be quite as good, but it could be the difference between life and death.

Is there any other health issues or things that seem to be off/wrong?

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

They can but never had one nuke the tank though. I ended up sellin him because I did not and could not get him into a bigger tank in a small apartment.



Btw, the cowfish should not be in the same tank with another puffer or any aggressive fishes. Now they have been known to release small amounts of toxins in the tank. And some owners that I have heard from say they have added carbon to their filters with any boxfishes.

I am worried it released enough toxin to cause damage to the puffer's eyesight.

You know you could be right, I kinda believe the cowfish might have released just enough mount of toxin that could have cause problems with the porcupines eyesight. Im not sure but could be a 50/50 chance.

[Nuclear_Glitter]

You know you could be right, I kinda believe the cowfish might have released just enough mount of toxin that could have cause problems with the porcupines eyesight. Im not sure but could be a 50/50 chance.

I am suspecting it was some of both. I think vitamin deficiency caused some of the problem and the cowfish finished it off.

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

You know you could be right, I kinda believe the cowfish might have released just enough mount of toxin that could have cause problems with the porcupines eyesight. Im not sure but could be a 50/50 chance.

I am suspecting it was some of both. I think vitamin deficiency caused some of the problem and the cowfish finished it off.

Yeah could be vitamin deficiency also but these fish comes from the ocean and then into stock tanks and no tellin how many places they go. Could have some eye problems that was going on from the wild or in the stock tanks. Mainly if he has not had the porcupine puffer that long.

[Nuclear_Glitter]

he has had them for at least over a year, because he stated that's how long his tank mates have been together.

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Oh then yeah it could be a vitamin deficiency or toxins from the cowfish.

[TheShield]

It's quite difficult to believe the cowfish has anything to do with that. Cowfish is about 1/4 size of the puffer. None of them has ever shown any sign of aggressivity.

I will rather follow the bad diet road. I think after he ate those two shrimp heads something went wrong inside him. I have noticed him the next day trying to regurgirate the food. About one year ago feeding mysis, a bit too much maybe, he went into a similar state. The difference was I have removed him into a QT thank immediately. Been sick for couple of days but fully recovered. It was easier considering it was smaller.

This time I didn't move it because I thought it wil be just fine. I think he was actually able to vomit part of the food and this food into the aquairum may have produced a spike of some sort. Either rasing NO3 to a very high level or NH4. All those things together may have affected internally the fish. He then recovered full but lost the eyesight.

Reading pages of similar cases, there is something to do with the diet. Also cases of sudden lost of sight in porcupine fish are present with not a well documented background and not following up after the report. Thought someone in here may have better knowledges about this.

At this moment I'm constantly water change the mai tank, removing rock into a secondary aqaurium to create more swimming place.

About soaking food into vitamins, first of all, where do you get those vitamins, any specific procedure to follow, any risks of overdosing it?

Tried yesterday to feed fresh scallop soaked into small cup of water with garlic, one clove. Fed about 4 small pieces with a long wood stick. Ate them all. In about 5 minutes, started to regurgirate it. Quite alot but don't think all of it. Must have been either: too much scallop food while recovering; too much garlic; both of the above. No other signs, today behaving normally apart from not being able to see.

I have previously ask about the only physical change I have noticed, mate of the cornea, being now dark blue with not the usual blue glaze reflection. Anyone with some medical background can give an opinion?

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

It's quite difficult to believe the cowfish has anything to do with that. Cowfish is about 1/4 size of the puffer. None of them has ever shown any sign of aggressivity.

I will rather follow the bad diet road. I think after he ate those two shrimp heads something went wrong inside him. I have noticed him the next day trying to regurgirate the food. About one year ago feeding mysis, a bit too much maybe, he went into a similar state. The difference was I have removed him into a QT thank immediately. Been sick for couple of days but fully recovered. It was easier considering it was smaller.

This time I didn't move it because I thought it wil be just fine. I think he was actually able to vomit part of the food and this food into the aquairum may have produced a spike of some sort. Either rasing NO3 to a very high level or NH4. All those things together may have affected internally the fish. He then recovered full but lost the eyesight.

Reading pages of similar cases, there is something to do with the diet. Also cases of sudden lost of sight in porcupine fish are present with not a well documented background and not following up after the report. Thought someone in here may have better knowledges about this.

At this moment I'm constantly water change the mai tank, removing rock into a secondary aqaurium to create more swimming place.

About soaking food into vitamins, first of all, where do you get those vitamins, any specific procedure to follow, any risks of overdosing it?

Tried yesterday to feed fresh scallop soaked into small cup of water with garlic, one clove. Fed about 4 small pieces with a long wood stick. Ate them all. In about 5 minutes, started to regurgirate it. Quite alot but don't think all of it. Must have been either: too much scallop food while recovering; too much garlic; both of the above. No other signs, today behaving normally apart from not being able to see.

I have previously ask about the only physical change I have noticed, mate of the cornea, being now dark blue with not the usual blue glaze reflection. Anyone with some medical background can give an opinion?

Dont underestimate that small cowfish. He can release small amounts of toxins into the tank without you knowin it. We was talking about this subject over 8 years ago in cowfish, boxfish, and marine puffer forum that I used to be in. Plus owning both species we are talking about here. I also had porcupine's regurgirate when fed alittle much unlike a stars and stripes puffer that I also once owned. And my Congo puffer regurgirated a worm the other day that was abit too much for him. It was about an hour later when he regurgirated it though. Some puffers can hold abit more then others, imo. So feeding your porcupine alittle less might help keep him from regurgirating his food.

Sorry about not knowing about the eye change. Maybe Corvus or RTR could shed some light on that for ya.

[Pufferpunk]

I told you a year ago, the cowfish was a really bad idea to mix with any other inhabitants. you would not listen!

You cannot overdose the vits. I purchase them online but you should be able to get them at a good SW LFS. Be sure to get Selcon & Vita-Chem.

[TheShield]

I told you a year ago, the cowfish was a really bad idea to mix with any other inhabitants. you would not listen!

Yes, you have told me so. Others told me different. I have ahd browsing the internet at that time looking for any sciencific reference about the subject; I have found none. If you have anything on the topic please let me know, I'll like to read about it.

You cannot overdose the vits. I purchase them online but you should be able to get them at a good SW LFS. Be sure to get Selcon & Vita-Chem.

Thanks, Selcom and Vite-Chem not widely available in the UK but Ebay may give me a hand in here. Is there a 'best way' to use them?

Today I have made some tests, if I suddenly turn off the light the puffer stops from swiming or changes whatever it does at the moment. So there is some reaction, perhaps not completely blind.

Anyone around this forum with some medical background who would like to share his/her opinion about this case?

Thanks.

[Nuclear_Glitter]

What do you need reference on for the cowfish? Do you mean the fact they're toxic?

Anyway, the eyes changing color is most likely like in blind human's, the have a lack of color. The eye changing to dark blue is reported in basically all the cases of puffers going blind. I highly doubt it was just those exact two shrimp heads that did it. The fact that you're not offering much of a varied diet is probably what has done it.

Your puffer really needs bigger tank, so you could get him the bigger tank and keep the cowfish in the smaller tank and the puffer in the bigger one.

As far as the vitamins go, you soak the food in it. There's no risk of overdose as PP said.

Really hoping your puffer can pull through! Good luck.

[TheShield]

I have read that cowfish contains ostracitoxin as other members of boxfishes, however I haven't read any study published to support the theory that in captivity, under severe stress or different other factors to trigger it, this fish release the toxin. From the personal experiences shared by enthusiasts on blogs or/and forums, it seems that however there are a couple of common symptoms like water getting a milky aspect and fish starting to gasp for air; none of these happened in my aquarium. They have been in the same place for about 1 year, cowfish used to eat out of the puffer mouth and when not completely ignoring each other (like in 99% of time) they were seen cruisign the tank together. Neither of them were/are agressive.


I think you're right, the lack of vitamins and other essentials in his diet for a long period of time (feeding only shrimps and mussels mostly) has affected him. What I don't get is the sudden lost of eyesight. I know for sure that in the past he was never bumping into any object and was able to follow the food in water curent very easily. Somehow that meal triggered something inside. Maybe someone will come with some explanation.

[puffykid]

No3 = 30-50,

+ I do not run any external filtration or skimmer, doing a weekly 25% water change

Could it be extended periods of high nitrates + vitamin deficiency?

[Nuclear_Glitter]

That's the thing, it's not exactly "sudden". High NO3 could have something to do with it, too. You really should be running a skimmer, why aren't you?

The eyesight loss probably happened over the course of time and it's finally to the point where he is bumping into objects.

[TheShield]

I have a Deltec mc500 but not using it, quite difficult to setup. Never happy with the existing setup, always planned to get sometthing better, just didn't happen.

Well, if I consider the color of the eyes, they definetely changed in a matter of days not oever the time. He wasn't shy or/and unsure about how to swim or where are the object near him, I would say totally contrary. With light off, just the subtle light getting in thru the window at night, he was following me going across the room. I'm not sure if this species can get a sharper vision than that but this is what he had before the event.