Planning new home

[Quaid]

I am moving appartments in May, and am considering purchasing a 65 gallon tank that fits my stand (36x18x24). This would replace my 15 gallon and 2.5 gallon.

My motivation is to have enough room for an algae crew (Brislenose and SAE's if I can find them!) in addition to my current SAP and Dwarf puffer.

I am currently fighting a long and losing battle against black beard algae, and the only method I have not tried is the addition of a fish that eats this type of algae.

I am looking for opinions on compatibility between the SAP, Dwarf, Bristlenose and SAE's. Also, anyone with planted aquarium experience that has comments on this size of tank or how to deal with BBA...please chime in also.

ASIDE: To deal with the BBA I have increased my CO2 so that I maintain 30ppm, I have increased my fert dosing, I have removed affected plants and bleached affected stones and wood. Nothing has worked long term. This stuff is IN my tank and it does not want to leave. I have been at war with BBA for almost 1 year now.

[tekknoschtev]

I'll admit I'm not high up on the "high tech" side of planted tanks, I just have lights, a heater and HOT magnum filter, but I'd suspect that dosing ferts isnt going to help the problem with the BBA. On that note, I've also read that elevating your CO2 without having a decent amount of light can cause problems as well - though I dont know if BBA

As for Siamese Algae Eaters (I assume thats what you mean by SAE?), I'd skip them. They have a tendancy to become omnivorous as they get older, and have quite the apetite (ours went canibalistic on us and ate his smaller 'brother'). As for the pleco's with puffers, I can say with Dwarf Puffers, they'd be ok. I had one in my 10gal in hopes that it'd eat hair algae, but that didnt happen :p Lasted for a long time, until I broke the tank down and moved the pleco to a larger tank.

Red algae: Also called Black Beard Algae (bba), or Black Brush Algae. Short hairs (1/4" long), closely packed together. Appears dark green, black, or dark red. Grows on plant leaves, and sometimes on decorations/substrate. Often grows all around the edges of plant leaves.

BBA thrives in situations of high phosphates. Phosphates come from fish waste, excess food, and occasionally will be present in the water supply. The best way to eliminate BBA is to let the plants out-compete the algae for the nutrients.

In heavily planted tanks, BBA will often show up when the plants have used up all the nitrates. This causes plant growth to slow or stop, which leaves the excess phosphates available to the algae. By supplying extra Nitrate to a planted tank, we allow plant growth to continue until all phosphate is consumed. Then plant AND algae growth will slow/stop. As long as a usable (5-10ppm) level of Nitrate is maintained, the the plants will continue to use up the available phosphate, effectively controls BBA and other phosphorus-dependant algaes. See the article "Adding Nitrate to a Planted Tank" for detailed instructions on how to increase your Nitrate levels.

Very few fish will eat BBA. The most famous one is the SAE (Siamese Algae Eater). I've got 5 of them in my 75g. I added several BBA infested stems of Bacopa to the tank recently, and overnight, the SAEs had completely cleaned it. But even these amazing fish won't be able to control it you don't have the phosphate level under control. Another fish rumored to eat BBA is the American Flag Fish. In tanks with very large amounts of BBA, the BBA covered leaves should be removed once the phosphate level is controlled.

I would suspect, as the above quoted passage suggests, that there is something awry with your water quality, and I'd tend to think (based on how I like to maintain the tanks) that fixing the problem(s) would eventually lead to getting rid of the BBA. As they mention, the fish are somewhat of a bandaid and if you used them and got rid of them the BBA would come back due to something being off in the tank.

[RTR]

More info is needed on tank and lighting parameters to give any meaningful response.

SAEs do not become nasty with age and size as do CAEs, don't confuse the two, they are quite different fish. True SAEs are always primarily algae grazers, but do become lazy and less effective cleaners with age - they learn that fish food is easier than grazing. But so do shrimp and even most common snails. SAEs are also among the most frequently mis-ID'd fish in stores.

Light, supplemental ferts, and CO2 must all be in balance. If any of the three is off, especially lacking, algae will take advantage. Elevating CO2 will never "cause" algae. Lack of a macro-nutrient, micro-nutrient, or carbon certainly can and is the commonest cause of algae.

Nitrate level?

Phosphate level?

Trace supplement?

GH/KH?

Lighting?

Temp?

[Myaj]

I definately agree with RTR, my SAE's are huge now and they don't bother anyone but each other. CAE's though have a horrible rep and Flying Foxes/False SAE's tend to get a little agressive according to some people.

Do your research and find out the differences before buying, and you shouldn't have any issues. My SAE's did eat black beard algae, that's why I originally bought them. I have only seen them in local stores a handful of times, originally I had to order my guys from AZ Gardens. I recently bought a young one and he does eat a heck of a lot more algae than the older guys, he's constantly grazing.

Once the SAE's ate my BBA, it never came back. I've since moved the SAE's to other tanks, but I've still not seen the BBA show up, my only outbreak of it was at least 4 years ago.

As far as compatibility, I kept my SAP and dwarves with a bristlenose and they were fine (the bristlenose had plenty of hiding places though). I would think SAE's would be okay, but no guarentees.. They are plenty fast though, but you never know what's going to happen. My SAP is a big chicken, but my dwarves are evil.. yet they've always mingled great with tankmates (not suggested but it has worked for me). Right now they are in a 33xl with some small rainbowfish and there is not a single nipped fin.. but the tank is so heavily planted its not funny, in the 2-3 weeks theyve been in there I've only caught 2 quick glimpses of the male. They are so busy hunting down snails and shrimp that they dont' even come out for live blackworms anymore. The SAP mingles with the rainbows and seems just fine with them, if anything, he gives them plenty of room. Again, I do NOT recommend trying it, but if you do, you want a very heavily planted tank and don't skimp on feedings lol.

[londonloco]

I have a friend w/a 100 gallon lighted planted and rock aquarium he keeps a variety of large tropical fish in. He likes his BBA, grooms it, keeps it in areas he wants it and prevents it from growing wild...

[Quaid]

Right right. I didn't intend to have a discussion about getting rid of the algae in my current tanks, but I suppose we can do that again.

The 2.5gal has some green thread algae in the java moss. I can't seem to get rid of one without getting rid of the other. It's not a big problem though because you can't really see it.

Specs on the 2.5 are:
13watt AH supply CF kit
1x 2L CO2 generator feeding a ladder diffuser
~80 F

Specs on the 15 are:
55watt AH supply CF kit
2x 2L CO2 generator feeding a mini vortex diffuser
~80 F

EDIT: I'm sorry I'm really under the weather right now, and I'll have to finish this post later

[RTR]

Amano shrimp are the best "groomers" of Java Moss and Marimo balls in my tanks. Red Cherry ahrimp will likely do the same job, but I have not tested that. Compatability with any puffer is iffy.

[Quaid]

I don't think I can put any shrimp in the 2.5 with the dwarf, although they would be ideal.


I already covered the equipment on the tanks, so now I'll cover the water quality.

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - dosed to 15-20ppm at waterchange
Potassium - ~20ppm dosed at waterchange
PO4 - ~1ppm dosed at waterchange
Fe and other micros are dosed, but I cannot test for concentration in the tank

I then alternate days dosing micros and macros. Between water changes I only dose smaller ammounts:
Nitrate - 5ppm
Potassium - 10ppm
PO4 - not at all except at water change


From one of the top posts it seems that I might need to dose more nitrate. Either than or cut down on PO4?

[Boxermom]

From talking to other DP owners, it seems that most do fine with shrimp. My three never come near the ghost shrimp in the tank with them, or the snail.

My red cherry shrimp in my community tank do a good job.

[Quaid]

What about bioload? I was under the impression most people felt the 2.5 was borderline for keeping a single dwarf puffer in.

[Boxermom]

It is, but a shrimp or two, especially the smaller ones, don't add much to the bioload. If you can get a few red cherry shrimp, those would work well.

I have a 2.5 gal with a betta, baby bristlenose pleco and mystery snail in it and they do well. I am faithful about doing 50% water changes weekly, making sure to vacuum the gravel really well.

[RTR]

I would not keep a DP in a 2.5 myself, and would certainly not add anything else if I did that.

[lisalisa]

I would not keep a DP in a 2.5 myself, and would certainly not add anything else if I did that.

I agree, RTR.

[Quaid]

Well all of that is irrelavent now, because I got a good deal on a pre-owned but never used 65gal.

I will be setting it up in approximately 1 month from now. I need to acquire a pressurized CO2 system, 2x96watt AHSupply kit, a suitable heater, and possibly a new filter system. I have 2x Aquaclear 50's right now, which should be ok. I am contemplating getting one of the ebay Jebo Odyssea CFS4 cannisters.

Any advice on the filtration or where to procure a CO2 cannister and appropraite regulator system would be appreciated. I have done a good deal of reading about it, but am simply not informed enough about where to get the various parts up here in Canada.

That tank was heavy too. Carried it all by myself, which was a mistake. Lundi and Mercredi had best appreciate all this trouble!

[Quaid]

Got an eheim classic 2215 on sale for $140 CAN. No more worrying about Jebo quality!

I also went to Air Liquide and got a 12lb CO2 tank and regulator. Stopped in a hydroponics shop to get a valve and for the police to play tag with me on the way home. I might look into a bigger diffuser, we'll see.

I found a good deal on a 'quartz' 200w heater. It says the special glass will not shatter due to extreme temperature changes like those experienced when someone accidentally removes the heater from the water too quickly. I'm not sure about the reliability of this heater, but if it's bogus I'll let everyone know!

Yesterday I built the hood for the 65g. Now all it needs is the lights. I might use my current AHsupply 55w and add one 96w. Either that or a VHO ICECAP ballast with standard flourescents.