Porcupine Puffer, brink of death

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Nightfoxx220
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Porcupine Puffer, brink of death

Post by Nightfoxx220 »

Hey guys, haven't been on in a long time and Micah the puffer has been healthy as can be! I have had in about 2.5 years, no issues!
These are older pictures, but you get the idea.
Image
This is more recent
Image


About a week-week and a half ago he stopped eating.
When I tried to feed him, he just gives me the cold shoulder,so I let it go and tried again for the next few nights.
A few days ago I started to become concerned, as he was still not eating.

About 3 nights ago he started acting like he had a stroke or something. I will attach a video, but he swims and can't control himself.
He spins, and flops and I am afraid of him hurting himself even more, such as head trauma or scratching his eyes on rocks etc.


So immediately I tested the water.
Ammonia, PH, Alkalinity, Nitrite, Calcium- everything came out FINE
Nitrate was a little high due to "old tank syndrome" but absolutely NOWHERE near lethal.

So I immediately did a 40 gallon water change while I put him in a 5 gallon tank.
Put him back in and same thing, he can control himself sometimes, other times not.
If we hold him, he sits there fine. If we don't he wedges himself somewhere where he won't move.
He curls up and only uses his left fin, and curls his tail up.
But when he wants to move he uses his right and his tail just fine.


Today he is sitting on top of my powerhead, still can't swim right. and I have no idea what to do.
I also noticed the tips of his fins starting to turn red because I can see the arteries.
He also breathes heavier than normal, his gills flap at about 62 times per minute.
Which seems and looks much too fast.


I don't think he has a chance and don't want him to suffer, but I don't want to euthanize him if he has a chance.


Any help is greatly appreciated, but I fear there is nothing that can be done.
It is sad to lose the best looking Porc I have EVER seen.

What do you guys think could be going on?
Stroke? Heart attack? Some neurological damage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zHMEFr9 ... ature=plcp
Micah the Porcupine puffer<3
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LilGreenPuffer
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

OMG! Those symptoms remind me a bit of nitrite poisoning (it has neurological effects), but obviously that's not the problem. I do think it's neurological, and if it's not nitrite poisoning, I doubt there's much you can do. :(
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

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Nightfoxx220
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by Nightfoxx220 »

LilGreenPuffer wrote:OMG! Those symptoms remind me a bit of nitrite poisoning (it has neurological effects), but obviously that's not the problem. I do think it's neurological, and if it's not nitrite poisoning, I doubt there's much you can do. :(
With my home test kit my nitrite came out between 0 and .05 which is such a small gap it could be 0
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bertie 83
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by bertie 83 »

Do a couple of waterchanges immediately. Not too much at once if ots is admitted. Do several 20ish percent giving an hour or so in-between . I am certain once u have done a few he may feel a little better. I don't want to sound harsh but I believe water quality is responsible. We can only measure certain levels in the home aquarium but other things in the water can build up without us being able to test them. Lots of waterchanges (build up) will give u the best chance of saving that beautiful puffer. Keep on it don't give up.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Nightfoxx220
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by Nightfoxx220 »

I'm just not sure, I know he has lived 2.5 years here.
But is well water than runs through a water softener that uses salt all that good for fish?

The other night I did a water change that brought it down to 1 or 2 inches off the substrate, mixed all the water and got it to temperature and slowly re-acclimated him just like you would a new fish.

I just don't understand why hes either not fine or dead, why is he living so long like this?
Usually it seems anything that goes into a state like this dies rather quickly.

Let me just throw a random thing out there too, maybe it could be water.
I had a gerbil, sister has a mouse, and girlfriend had a rat.
They all got the same bedding, water and food.

My gerbil ended up closing her eyes and just crawling around the ground like she had a stroke.
Then my girlfriends rat did the same thing about a month later.
Shortly after that my sisters mouse died.



Could something have gotten into our water and my last few water changes have intoxicated the tank?
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bertie 83
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by bertie 83 »

Absolutely could be. Use ro or distilled water on a 30 % change. Or boil and cool water and use that, see where we are then. There is defo something here we can overcome to save him. Tell us how much lr you have etc. Follow that change with another 30% change quickly and I am certain you will see some progress
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Nightfoxx220
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by Nightfoxx220 »

bertie 83 wrote:Absolutely could be. Use ro or distilled water on a 30 % change. Or boil and cool water and use that, see where we are then. There is defo something here we can overcome to save him. Tell us how much lr you have etc. Follow that change with another 30% change quickly and I am certain you will see some progress
I don't know exactly how much I have but I would say 10 gallons worth
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bertie 83
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Danios, Tetras, Redtail Rasporas,
Harlequins, CAE's, Yoyo
Loaches, Clown loaches ,Eels, various shrimp, tangs,wrasses, damsels, chromis
Location (country): Brighton, England
Location: brighton , england

Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by bertie 83 »

Ok do you have a full tank shot? We may be able to assess from there. It is vital you add water with potentially no toxins, be it ro or di or rodi. Or as a last resort boiled and cooled.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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bertie 83
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My Puffers: lineatus R.I.P, South American puffer. Valentini puffer, porcupine puffer.
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Danios, Tetras, Redtail Rasporas,
Harlequins, CAE's, Yoyo
Loaches, Clown loaches ,Eels, various shrimp, tangs,wrasses, damsels, chromis
Location (country): Brighton, England
Location: brighton , england

Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by bertie 83 »

Ots is brutal and if we throw in potentially non fish friendly water you are stuffed. You need to perform lots of water changes with safe water. Not too much at once or you will shock your fish, but enough to dilute the bad water. Little and very often will get you out of trouble I am sure
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by Flutter »

Can you not give us the parameters of your water? That will help us know if you should be performing several small water changes or if it's safe to do one or two large ones.
It is absurd to talk of one animal being higher than another. We consider those, when the cerebral structure/intellectual faculties most developed, as highest. A bee doubtless would when the instincts were.
Charles Darwin
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by sparks42 »

Also make sure to remember the power of positive thinking. ... and also make sure to give your fish rest time to feel better as it probably won't snap out of it in an instant, and could be stressed from all the stress itself. Positive thoughts, positive thoughts :)
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Nightfoxx220
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by Nightfoxx220 »

Like I said, all of my parameters are spot on like they are supposed to be.
He is acting worse now, he just violently went around the tank flopping.
I don't think he's going to make it, his fins are turning red instead of the tannish/white color.
Almost like too much bloody is being pumped.

I'd like to put him out of his misery but don't have anything to do so humanely

What's the best way to do it? It's gotta be done.
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LilGreenPuffer
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

What are the exact numbers of your parameters?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18520
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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Nightfoxx220
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Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by Nightfoxx220 »

I saw that, I have killed a fish by blunt force, but don't want to do it to micah. I mean come on he's 8 inches long.
At this point I have no worry other than euthanizing him, its more painful to watch than to lose.
It's going to happen regardless

What's the vodka method I am reading? That doesn't sound like its fun for the fish...
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LilGreenPuffer
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RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond.
Location (country): United States
Location: Kentucky

Re: Porcupine Puffer, bring of death

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Do you have access to anesthetic, or can you get some shipped overnight? I have Finquel and can overnight some to you if you reimburse me the shipping money via PayPal.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi

Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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