Species Identification

[Tomal]

So, I got these puffers from the LFS and the guy said that they were DP. 5 months later they were almost three inches long and it was painfully obvious that they were not DP! I loved these little puffers. They were fed brine shrimp daily, snails once a week and glass shrimp every two weeks. Towards the end of the fourth month they were showing signs of increasing distress. Three weeks ago they laid down on the bottom of the tank and couldn't even be coaxed up to eat their favorite treats. Six days ago, they died...The only thing i could think of was that me, not knowing what species they were, denied them something they needed to survive.Throughout this whole time I've been going through Wikipedia's puffer list and multiple puffer forums. From the list I thought they were Takifugu Poecilonotus (finepatterned puffer), but It was suggested to me that they could've been Chelonodon Patoca (milkspotted puffer) or even Takifugu Niphobles (Grass puffer). (The link goes to pics of one of my puffers about a week before he died, these are the only pics I have of them up close) I would really like to know what species they are and what I did wrong. Any help would be much appreciated. But my best guess is that the freshwater aquarium killed them.. they were most likely a marine or brackish water puffer. https://plus.google.com/photos/11764213 ... 9579096529

[Corvus]

Chelonodon patoca has different nostrils (more like 2 long thin spikes per side) like here http://www.estalens.fr/photo/Chelonodon_patoca1.JPG and a different snout. Your pictures 2+3 suggest Takifugu nostrils, although the pics are a little blurry. Here's a Takifugu with typical nostrils: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... 34e71e.jpg

T. niphobles has only small spots with a wider distance, so we can exclude this species, too.

Your ID as Takifugu poecilonotus seems to be OK, the number and shape of spots as well as their distribution is in line with other descriptions and illustrations of this species.

It's a marine species, and it occurs mostly in temperate to subtropical waters. So, too high temperature/low oxygen can also explain their quick death. For care, see T. ocellatus, which is another difficult puffer from this genus.

PS: fish ID per poll -> lol... that's not a democratic thing.

[Corvus]

A quick literature check showed that the salinity preference of your species (T. poecilonotus) was tested in a lab and it was much worse than on some other Takifugu species. Although it can travel up brackish waters and freshwater streams for a few days (where they may be caught and thought to be freshwater fish, end up in trade as such), they seem do return to the sea quite quick. Surviving for 4 months in freshwater is an unsuspected long time so to say.

[Tomal]

Chelonodon patoca has different nostrils (more like 2 long thin spikes per side) like here http://www.estalens.fr/photo/Chelonodon_patoca1.JPG and a different snout. Your pictures 2+3 suggest Takifugu nostrils, although the pics are a little blurry. Here's a Takifugu with typical nostrils: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... 34e71e.jpg

T. niphobles has only small spots with a wider distance, so we can exclude this species, too.

Your ID as Takifugu poecilonotus seems to be OK, the number and shape of spots as well as their distribution is in line with other descriptions and illustrations of this species.

It's a marine species, and it occurs mostly in temperate to subtropical waters. So, too high temperature/low oxygen can also explain their quick death. See T. ocellatus for another difficult puffer from this genus.

PS: fish ID per poll -> lol... that's not a democratic thing.

Thank you very much! So in the future when I can afford a large marine aquarium I will definitely look into getting a Takifugu poecilonotus, they are gorgeous and quite expressive puffers. I just wish I had figured all this our sooner. And the poll.. lol didn't think of it like that. Got rid of it.

Again thanks

[Corvus]

No problem. If I had seen your email on WWM, you'd have gotten the information above earlier.

[Tomal]

A quick literature check showed that the salinity preference of your species (T. poecilonotus) was tested in a lab and it was much worse than on some other Takifugu species. Although it can travel up brackish waters and freshwater streams for a few days (where they may be caught and thought to be freshwater fish, end up in trade as such), they seem do return to the sea quite quick. Surviving for 4 months in freshwater is an unsuspected long time so to say.

Well, they were the size of my pinkie fingernail when I got them. So maybe they acclimated to the freshwater for awhile? Then as they matured, needed saltwater more?
Is that even a possible explanation?

[Pufferpunk]

So glad you got off that crap MFK site. they really know little to nothing about puffer ID & even less about their proper care!

[Tomal]

So glad you got off that crap MFK site. they really know little to nothing about puffer ID & even less about their proper care!

Hahahaa I was trying to find info anywhere and quickly as possible. Took too long, but at least I got the info
I tried pufferfish.net, WWM, MFK, wikipedia, puffer forum, fishbase.org and many, many more places
You can definitely tell who knows what they're talking about, puffer forum, pufferfish.net and WWM were very helpful

[Pufferpunk]

I was on the WWM Staff for many years.

[Corvus]

A quick literature check showed that the salinity preference of your species (T. poecilonotus) was tested in a lab and it was much worse than on some other Takifugu species. Although it can travel up brackish waters and freshwater streams for a few days (where they may be caught and thought to be freshwater fish, end up in trade as such), they seem do return to the sea quite quick. Surviving for 4 months in freshwater is an unsuspected long time so to say.

Well, they were the size of my pinkie fingernail when I got them. So maybe they acclimated to the freshwater for awhile? Then as they matured, needed saltwater more?
Is that even a possible explanation?

Yes, sure. A number of Takifugu spp. breeds in freshwater and the juveniles travel to the sea (in contrast to GSPs for which this is also sometimes claimed, but definitively wrong: GSPs don't breed in freshwater), I'm not sure about T. poecilonotus. It is well possible, since you got them at a small size that they reached an age where they need higher salinities.

[Corvus]

I was on the WWM Staff for many years.

I'm still there (mostly answering moray questions)... 5 years and counting I guess.

[Corvus]

Addendum: I just had a look at WWM. Neale recommends pratically the same as I do with regard to T. poecilonotus.

[Tomal]

Thanks for all the help!

[J-P]

I am sorry for the loss of the puffers.

I am glad you decided to join the site. At least now you know and have some closure. If you have any other puffer related question please don't hesitate to ask.

Best wishes!

[kcartwright856]

I'm sorry to hear about your puffs.

Rest easy knowing that you recognized the problem and did everything you could to solve it, even if it came a bit too late.