fishless cycling

susans · Post by **susans** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:47 pm

i have a 30 gallon tank and have been adding bacteria in a bottle (stability) every day for now... 6 days - following directions from the bottle and the LFS, i have one more day to go.. salinity is at 1.009-1.010.. i have test kits on the way - i ordered them online.. as far as ammonia, what kind?
i will be adding a GSP to the tank in another week or so, once i get this ecosystem figured out!

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:19 pm

See this article: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/ ... hless.html

The "bacteria in a bottle" is probably just dead bacteria at worst, and the wrong kind of bacteria at best. The only product that will cycle a tank instantly is marineland bio-spira. It must be refrigerated to keep the bacteria alive. You add it right before you add your fish. If you can find some of this your cycling problems are over.

Do not add a fish to the tank until you are certain that the tank is cycled.

You should get an ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit, as well as ph. kh and gh can be handy too. You will need these to really tell if a tank is cycled or not, so don't rush adding a fish.

A tank is cycled when you have detected an ammonia spike, and then a nitrite spike, and then nitrate spike with 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite.

The ammonia to use for feeding is just regular house hold ammonia. A cheap no name brand will work. Just make sure it doesn't contain any perfumes or other additives. You can test this by shaking the bottle. It if frothes, it probably isn't pure ammonia.froths

susans · Post by **susans** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:29 pm

ok thanks. so i have already used the stability, i have added gravel. i have ammonia here, but it has perfume in it... i read that article. very helpful, thanks.
now my test kit, it should be here monday'ish. should i wait until then to start the ammonia?? im in no hurry on the GSP.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:28 pm

I would add a few drops of ammonia. That will either keep whatever bacteria that are there fed, or start an ammonia spike for the cycle to start. I'm going to guess that the stability bacteria that were dead will have decayed and added their own ammonia by now though.

Which test kits did you get?

Once they arrive, do a test, and report back with what you have. Without a test we're kinda flying blind. ;p

susans · Post by **susans** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:57 pm

ok thanks so much - i cannot get the same answer twice between the web and supposed "experts" at LFS's... driving me crazy!!!#!@#
i'll be back next week with an update. thanks again!!

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:40 am

Most employees at LFS are just that, employees. There for the paycheck. Very few take their job seriously enough to actually learn much about the trade. This sets up a terrible situation for people just getting into aquariums who expect the LFS to give them good advice. And not wanting to look stupid, or get fired, they eagerly tell the customer whatever sounds good.

Information you find on the net can be just as bad. I can assure you though, our library is top rate. We have a lot of very knowledgeable and experienced people here who know what they are talking about, and always learning knew things.

I'm glad you've found us. I look forward to hear how your new puffer does.

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:55 am

My LFS said they'd never let me work there. Said I'd tell everyone they were too stupid to take care of fish...

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:06 am

I used to want to work at a LFS. I even applied to a few. Never heard back... I was disapointed at first, then I realized it would have been too frustrating anyway.

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:12 am

Believe me it is. Did it for 8 years. Folks just bring back dead fish & want some more--no questions asked. They're just fish...

Rocker · Post by **Rocker** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:26 am

susans wrote:ok thanks. so i have already used the stability, i have added gravel. i have ammonia here, but it has perfume in it... i read that article. very helpful, thanks.
now my test kit, it should be here monday'ish. should i wait until then to start the ammonia?? im in no hurry on the GSP.

I would not use the ammonia if it contains perfume.

puffernuke · Post by **puffernuke** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:45 am

Call me stupid but what do you guys mean by feeding ammonia? I've never heard of this.

lisalisa · Post by **lisalisa** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:52 am

If there are no fish in the tank producing ammonia, which feeds the nitrifying bacteria, then it is necessary to add ammonia to the tank, to keep it cycled.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:38 pm

RTR recommends feeding flake food as usual to keep a tank "fed" rather than just ammonia so that all the other organisms in the tank have particulate food to eat as well.

I thought that was pretty clever. I only thought of the bacteria needing ammonia, but not the other micro organisms needing food as well.

I'd still use just ammonia for cycling the tank in the first place though.

Post by **RTR** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:46 pm

Exactly, x0rtrunks. In cycling we are concerned only with the nirtification bacteria, not the rest of the microbes and infusorians. But once the tank is mature, why not keep those cultures alive as well and not have to face any cloudy water outbreaks, etc.?

bourbon1 · Post by **bourbon1** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:35 am

i did a full fishless cycle of my tank just using ammonia, it took about 3 weeks but i have perfect tank conditions now, just add enough ammonia to get to 5 pppm initially, then keep adding that amount of ammonia until the nitrites start to appear, cut back the ammonia by half and keep adding until the nitrites hit zero, then just add the same amount of ammonia to keep the tank cycled until you're ready to add your fish. no death involved!

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