f8- unknown, could be internal parasite??

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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want4rain
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f8- unknown, could be internal parasite??

Post by want4rain »

so i have treated both of my remaining f8 for ich, both are doing fantastic!! i treated with salt (convenient :D ) and high temps. cleared them right up.

we have two puffers here, i went through WWM's faq (and got a headache) but didnt really find what i was looking for...

so we have Goober and Slinkey (my HUSBAND named them....)
tank parameters are:
25g
amm-0
rite-0
rate- 5 to 10
pH 8.2

tank buddies are:
2 ghost shrimp (honestly, i thought they would have had a taste of that by now...)

tank maint:
doing WC every other day of 5g (so they are pigs....) with gravel (or in this case, crushed coral) vacuum.
i also rearrange the plants and shells and slate i have in the tank about once a week.

tank babies:
Goober is short and fat. his belly gets flat between feedings but not as flat as Slinkeys. pristine white belly. NOT a happy puffer. he hugs the glass a bunch and doesnt sleep at night. im up a few times a night and i dont think i have EVER seen him resting. he eats well. his colour is fantastic, very bright and defined. other than not being happy with the tank set up, he doesnt seem to be unhealthy.

Slinkey on the other hand, worries me. i am positive SOMETHING is wrong, just not sure what. his belly gets really really flat... much flatter (is that even a word??) than Goobers, almost concave. his colour is always in pajamas mode and he is thrashing against the pieces of slate i have in the tank. on a more positive note with him, he sleeps at night, pristine white belly, AND he hardly ever hugs the glass of the tank. he is responsive and full of personality. he loves exploring the tank. i feed most of my fish brine shrimp once a week/2weeks as a treat (nothing gets guppies excited like brine shrimp) and Slinkey LOVED puttering around the tank to find all of them in the substrate. he seems like a happy fish but for the thrashing and the pajamas.

help please! ive worked hard at keeping these two boogers alive and i would hate to loose one :(

-ash
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Phaedrus
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Post by Phaedrus »

See the sticky about levamisol at the top of this board.

Treating for internal parasites is probably a good idea for wild caught fish like puffers, especially if you have a suspicion like this.
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want4rain
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Post by want4rain »

so i read this, can get my hands on Levamisole hydrochloride easily... friend of mine has a cow farm and uses it.
any thoughts on what else it MIGHT be? id rather not remove my guys from the display tank unless we are sure (as can be) that this is the problem.

thanks!!
-ash
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Phaedrus
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Post by Phaedrus »

parasites are pretty likely in wild caught fish.

What do his feces look like?
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want4rain
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Post by want4rain »

honestly, we have had these guys for 3 and a half weeks and never seen them poop. i am NOT really finding it on the bottom of the tank. soooo my guess would be white or the GS are eating them??

-ash
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Post by Pufferpunk »

No need to remove fish from main tank, to treat for IPs, since you are medicating their food. I'd treat both fish. You may want to just keep feeding well. Is the fish emaciated? What does it's poo look like?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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want4rain
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Post by want4rain »

i thought Levamisole hydrochloride was added to the water???

also, i havent seen any poop. i have even tried changing up the times i feed them to see if that doesnt change the time they poop. nothing.

as for emancipated... is there a good profile pic of a f8 i can compare this to?? they both have been well fed since i picked them up. i havent over fed but i am NOT skipping days (which is why im vacuuming every other day... pigs)
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Phaedrus
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Post by Phaedrus »

When you vacuum, do you not suck up any poop?

An emaciated puffer would look thin, concaved tummy, kinda sickly. A puffer with parasites who isn't heavily fed would look like that and would never be able to keep a decent belly for very long.

I believe you can soak their food in a solution of the medication.
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Pufferpunk
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Post by Pufferpunk »

IPs must be treated internaly.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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want4rain
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Post by want4rain »

with as often as i vacuum, i dont think i would catch it.

im really sorry i dotn have any better answer for emacnipated than i just dont know. i have nothing to compare my fish to. ive googled f8's and cant seem to get a good profile pic to see what the bellies SHOULD look like empty.

as for the Levamisole hydrochloride i chose that one because your article about it said it was for fish who wouldnt or couldnt eat. AND i can get my hands on it. im not sure what the dosage would be if i needed to soak food in it. its dosed at 800mg/10g...

thanks a bunch
-ash
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want4rain
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Post by want4rain »

free a puffer!

sorry :)

-ash
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Phaedrus
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Post by Phaedrus »

Here are some pictures of a very healthy F8: http://rob.madsen.googlepages.com/stumpy (I hope vuphy doesn't mind me linking to his puffer. He should be proud it's being used as an example of a healthy puff ;) )

A healthy puff looks round and plump. A sick puff would look quite the opposite, scrawny and sucked in.
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want4rain
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Post by want4rain »

that isnt even close to my puffers. mine both look like flat bottomed boats. when i feed them they get a homer simpson pot belly. not the gently rounded one you linked me to.

for example, x0rtrunks... your GS avatar pic, thats closer to mine but still way more rounded on the edges. if that makes any sense.

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Post by The Fisherman »

hmmm, after reading this im begiing to wonder if my F8 has had IP all along. he never gets fat for very long, and the only time i ever saw him poo, it was liquid.
his colors are somewhat deep, but not nearly as vibrant as vuphys pic.

ill try and post a pic later.
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Jayhawk
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Post by Jayhawk »

Levamisole will work in the water column, but it's much harder on the fish (it's used this way with loaches commonly).

Do treat the food if they're still eating - much healthier for everyone involved.

Eric
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