Starting a GF Tank

[Pufferpunk]

PP gets away with some things that I cannot do - such as tankmates with a Fahaka.

When I kept GF, I could not use sucker-mouth cats. Even aside from the slime-sucking, they are just too messy.

Thanks for the reminder. I'll keep this in mind with a watchful eye. It's such a pretty pleco & would love to see more of him!

[Pufferpunk]

I don't usually go for mostly white fish but look at this one.
Look at this face!
http://www.raingarden.us/7770c.JPG

And the top down view is amazing!
http://www.raingarden.us/7770e.JPG

[LilGreenPuffer]

Ooooh, how big/how many fish are you aiming for?

[J-P]

the markings are beautiful! Especially that top down shot.

[RTR]

I have been a goldfish fancier forever. When I was a kid there was a garden pond with comets (real comets, rare today), and later tanks with other fancies.

For most captive fish, I prefer the wild types which have the coloring and form they developed in the wild. Goldfish are human-selected for almost all of the mutants and variations and hybrids which have been selected over centuries in captivity. They are in effect an entirely different section of the captive-fish hobby. When we lived in the inner suburbs (of DC) we has a lily pond in the front yard with goldfish. Out here it is more difficult - there are many farm ponds visible from our house, and there are many herons and a few other piscivores. Goldfish are targets here, so we have no pond ourselves.

In tanks they really need so much water and space that I have kept almost none. But I do have one old feeder in its mid-twenties still going strong. That fish and the gold-spotted plecos are my wife's favorite fish since the big T.mbu died.

[LilGreenPuffer]

I have been a goldfish fancier forever. When I was a kid there was a garden pond with comets (real comets, rare today), and later tanks with other fancies.

For most captive fish, I prefer the wild types which have the coloring and form they developed in the wild. Goldfish are human-selected for almost all of the mutants and variations and hybrids which have been selected over centuries in captivity. They are in effect an entirely different section of the captive-fish hobby. When we lived in the inner suburbs (of DC) we has a lily pond in the front yard with goldfish. Out here it is more difficult - there are many farm ponds visible from our house, and there are many herons and a few other piscivores. Goldfish are targets here, so we have no pond ourselves.

In tanks they really need so much water and space that I have kept almost none. But I do have one old feeder in its mid-twenties still going strong. That fish and the gold-spotted plecos are my wife's favorite fish since the big T.mbu died.

It's too bad about their water needs. I like the wild-type large ones too, but they need so much water apiece that even one is hard enough, let alone the groups that they like. I tend to think that the fancies are ugly, and I worry about the ones that get bred for characteristics that impede their quality of life, but the common ones are lovely.

[Pufferpunk]

I'm moving the tobies & other reef creatures to my 40g cube. It's been outside "cooking" all summer. The rock & tank was totally encrusted with pest, tulip anemones. That leaves the 46g bowfront for 2 show-quality GF.

[RTR]

Could I talk you into just one?

[Pufferpunk]

Darn, I wanted 2 very different-looking ones, like a calico oranda & orange ranchu. What if I do 90% weekly WC?

[Pufftastic]

The widely accepted "rule" (on the hardcore goldfish forums, anyway) is 20 gallons for the first fancy, 10 for every one thereafter, more water for really large fish. I personally think 2 in a 46 bowfront is totally adequate (I actually have 3 ranchus in my 46 bow, although one is a juvie).

I do large water changes -- about 85% weekly, without fail. Adding a puffer tank was easy for me with my goldfish background. Messy fish that need large, frequent water changes? Can do!

[Pufferpunk]

I followed your link. I only found one I really liked & for shipping prices would like to include 2 of them together. I think his trip to China is in November?

[LilGreenPuffer]

I would suggest getting a larger tank and two or more goldfish - from everything I've read and heard, they prefer to have companions. This author, Ren Weeks, is one of my FB friends, if you'd like to look her up, Jeni. She's incredibly knowledgeable.

http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=4460...

Goldfish should be kept with other members of their species, never singly, unless disabled or highly agressive. It is also wise to keep the different varieties with their own kind to prevent unfair disadvantages to those with inhibiting body shapes. Pairs of goldfish are considered acceptable, and larger groups are wonderful providing you can accommodate the tank size associated with keeping several goldfish. Remember to always provide plenty of plants, caves, and hiding spots when keeping multiple goldfish, as it allows weaker members to hide, and provides behavioral enrichment that will take some of the aggressive members' attention away from their tank mates.

The article's tank size suggestions need updating - she keeps hers in bigger tanks than that now, I believe. The article's about five years old.

What if I do 90% weekly WC?

We don't do it with puffers, so why goldfish? Fancies get up to a foot long, given enough space to prevent stunting, and produce tons of waste.

[Pufferpunk]

I had no idea they didn't like to be alone!

[Pufftastic]

I had no idea they didn't like to be alone!

Yeah, they're pretty social little boogers.

[RTR]

They are rather like some other FW fish. In large water volumes, they school. And I do not doubt that they prefer having their own kind around.

I used 50s for young show fish, one per tank. But those also were lined up and in circulating ranges. They had exposure by sight and pheromones, but not direct physical contact. Very large older fish got bigger tanks. In smaller tanks they just did not grow as well for me.

If I were doing them indoor now, I would likely operate the same way, but with smaller daily water changes (automated). Goldfish, even the fancies, can be quite large fish.