Plz Help

[nfored]

So I bought Instant Ocean Salt mix, went to by a hydrometer but none of the meters go any where close to low enough to measure 0.002SG the lowest any of them went was 0.018 which is the end target for my GSP. I don't know what to do and he needs to move quick I think the fresh water is killing him. Yesterday he was curled up into a ball then this morning he was stuck to the intake of the filter, he is now swiming like normal. I really don't know what to do. I have an empty 55 Gallon I can Turn into full marine right this minute, I might have to figure something out with a heater but I can take care of that tomorrow if I have to. But then I don't know what to do about cycling this tank since If I buy live rock it will still need to cycle.

The bag of IO mix says that 1.5lbs makes 5 Gallons of 1.022.

I really want to save this puffer.

[Dadof4]

I think you have bigger problems than just yous SG. Please answer the questions in red listed above.

Also moving this to the hospital tank for better viewing....

[nfored]

I think you have bigger problems than just yous SG. Please answer the questions in red listed above.

Also moving this to the hospital tank for better viewing....

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 30

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
24x16x12 One GSP 2"

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
50% per week Prime.

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
Normal Water Changes every week

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
2 weeks, however before you make another assumption like you did when asking these, A all the filter media Came from Another tank 100% of it, the tank went from 0ppm to <0.25ppm and back to 0ppm ammonia in the first 4 days so yest there was a mini cycle like you would expect when doing this type of cycling.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

So I know you make this assumption because I tell you the fish looks like he is dying, but I come here because I am new to BW fish and puffers not new to fish keeping.

Now lets talk about food first I tried feeding Hikari Gold & Staple, the Puffer from day one ate neither, Then I tried Giving him what ever This snail is I bought from Petsmart The snail is still in the tank living well. Today I tried Krill he didn't eat that either. I have all my tanks plumbed to water drains and water fill lines, so easy to change water with pre warmed water since I can mix cold and hot water, well when I did It I didn't get the hot just right and it raised the tank to about 88. So I would have expected something that day but not three days later, I know such large swings are stressful howerver he seemed fine for 2 days after that it was not til the third day that I saw that.

Now if you could please help me with my orginal question I would be very greatful, also if you find anying in there that you feel is a cause of this please let me know.

[bertie 83]

The nitrates seem too high. Other than that not sure, step up water changes to daily/ every other day for now and keep an eye on him.

[wagner7123]

I think your tank is too small for the long term, I would consider cycling the 55g to brackish maybe 1.015-1.018 sg with the intention of converting to full marine in the future. Once the tank is cycled, drip acclimate the puffer and put him in the 55g. My GSP tend to curl up when they are sleeping which they sometimes do even with the lights on. at the salt ratio you've given, .1lb will make 5 gallons 1.0013 sg. +1 on the nitrates being too high, I would try to solve that first or at least concurrently.

[Dadof4]

I see the move to the hospital tank is a good one.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 30

Puffers are scaleless and fish that have no gill covers and are very susceptible to water quality. While a nitrate level of 30 is generally Ok for most fish, puffers do best when the nitrate levels are in the 10-20 range. Higher than that for any length of time can cause nitrate intoxication and some of the symptoms you have described.

24x16x12 One GSP 2"

This is a 20 gallon high tank and is way too small for even a 2 inch single GSP. The minimum tank size for a singleton GSP is 30 gallon with a recommended size of 55 gallons. The reason for the large tank size is the bio-load these guys create, more room for dilution of dissolved organics like nitrate.

Now lets talk about food first I tried feeding Hikari Gold & Staple, the Puffer from day one ate neither, Then I tried Giving him what ever This snail is I bought from Petsmart The snail is still in the tank living well. Today I tried Krill he didn't eat that either.

Puffers will not (except rare occasion) take flake food and it's not the greatest food for them if they do. Live snails, ghost shrimp, chopped uncooked table shrimp, mussels and clams are a great diet for them.

How does he look? Belly nice and round or does he have a concave look to him? Have you seen him poop? What filter are you running? What substrate?

Please read this article, great info on GSP's: viewtopic.php?f=68&t=28469

at the salt ratio you've given, .1lb will make 5 gallons 1.0013 sg.

Not necessarily true. Every salt manufacturer is different, there can be a huge fluctuations in salt between batches from the same manufacturer, and once a bucket, bag, or box is open it can change ho much is needed to make "X" SG. Please use a hydrometer to measure the water before you add it to the tank and never add salt directly to the tank (it can burn fish unless well dissolved). Also, seeing as you're new to brackish fish, when you're raising the SG in your tank, do not raise by more than .002 per week until you get to 1.010. After 1.010 try to raise by only .001 per week, your biofilter is more prone to damage after 1.010.

[nfored]

I never use flake food. I think he gets stuck to the filter while sleeping. 20 gallons is to small for an adult not for this juvi given the good water parms filtration is good. Now nitrates my tap is 20ppm keeping it below 40ppm takes a alot so are we saying it will be impossible to keep him. And why has no one answered my actual question.

On my main tank I can get nitrate to 20ppm only by massively planting, I even used to do a drIp system. Each day my guy looks happy other then he isn't eating but thats because of nitrates. So since live rock can help with that can we answer the question on mixing the salt. Our should i go ghoul marine on the 55g and add about 5 or 10lbs of cured live rock and move him

[goldielocke76]

I never use flake food. I think he gets stuck to the filter while sleeping. 20 gallons is to small for an adult not for this juvi given the good water parms filtration is good. Now nitrates my tap is 20ppm keeping it below 40ppm takes a alot so are we saying it will be impossible to keep him. And why has no one answered my actual question.

On my main tank I can get nitrate to 20ppm only by massively planting, I even used to do a drIp system. Each day my guy looks happy other then he isn't eating but thats because of nitrates. So since live rock can help with that can we answer the question on mixing the salt. Our should i go ghoul marine on the 55g and add about 5 or 10lbs of cured live rock and move him

Everyone is trying to help you, so please be patient with everyone as they are trying to help you get your puffer healthy before stressing him out and moving him. You can go marine on the 55 and put in some live rock, but you need 1.5-2 lbs of LR per gallon. Also, the LR will say cured, but inevitably, some will still die off due to transport, water param changes, etc., so it will still need to cure after you put it in the 55 gallon. While trying to get your puff up to snuff in the 20 gallon, you could be making the 55 gallon marine as we speak. Therefore, when he is feeling better, you can drip acclimate him to the marine, and switch him over when he's healthy with minimal stress. Since he's in a 20 and you are having a hard time getting the nitrates to stay down, you might have to consider doing water changes more than just once a week. Even though you have nitrates in your tap, the Prime should help with that. Eventually when everything is done and set up, you could use your 20 as a hospital tank for him.

Also, I would urge you to try to feed more than just cichlid food (that's what I assume it is since that is what Google brought back when I searched for the Gold and Staple) as they need a more varied diet and need things like mussels, shrimp, crab, snails, worms etc. A more varied diet might help him perk up even more and then you won't have to worry about him getting caught in your filter intake. Also, pond snails are the way to go and if you plan on keeping puffers, it is recommended that you start your own breeding tank, as they need snails on a daily basis to keep their teeth trimmed. And stay away from krill, as it can cause lockjaw in puffers and put you back to square one health wise.

[scpion]

From my past experience with GSPs, I dun think the freshwater is killing him.. From where I am, ALL the LFS insist that GSPs are aclimatised to FW. And I have kept them in FW for close to a year without much problem. Until I ventured into this forum then I realise all my LFS are all bulls*$ing.. but I must stress that while its not right to have them in FW, your immediate concern may not be moving him into a marine environment, Unless he was in full marine when u first got him.. Keeping no3 down is a must for puffers and they can get moody or cranky at times.. but GSPs could be one of the easier puffer to upkeep imo..

I am not too sure if there is any hydrometer that will measure 0.002 SG.. u are suppose to dissolve the marine salt and then add the concentrated mix to your water.. then u take the measurement. This is the initial step for getting the water up to the desired SG. subsequent WC u are to match the SG then u do the top up. At least thats what I do in my old brackish setup.

Btw, with that 2in puffer in the 2ft tank, there is no way u can control the no3 even with a heavily planted tank imho. Their bioload is just too high even if u cant see it.

Probably now, just keep up with the WC till your marine is properly set up and cycled. If not, u might waste uncessary $ on marine salt if u were to do constant WC in marine..

my 5cts worth.. others may not agree to have him in FW now though..

[nfored]

I switched the pump it was to strong found him stuck twice more. I will move him to the 55g tomorrow and move the filter so not to worry about the cycle. I gave him a big snail from petsmart as well as omega krill not even a nibble. This nitrate will be a problem even when I had a 24x7 drip I couldn't break 40ppm in other tanks I would need too do 4 50%power week just to get to 20ppm. But that not impossible for me to do. So every thinks that it's the nitrates? So I will move him and see if he will eat.

[scpion]

It may or may not be the nitrate.. When I was first fell in love with puffers, I was so so horriblely overstock my tank.. I had 2 5in GSPs, 2 ard 3-4in ceylon, 1 2in ceylon, 2 2in GSP in my 55g.. I was new that time and all was in that same FW tank. U can imagine my nitrate must be through the roof!!! It was a total nightmare for them i think. But, none of them showed any ill symtoms.

What I wanted to say is that these babies are super sensitive and it could be anything that could be causing him to be cranky BUT, its still the best to give him the proper care since u know now. Water change will not hurt. so, WC wc wc.. When hes in the 55g, u can try feeding it small pieces of chopped market prawn and just dangling it front of him, just remove if he doesnt eat and try the next day. Works for me though.

PS. anyone reading this, I know I deserved to be hanged but I have changed....

Keeping nitrate low is a pain for me too but it has to be done, for them in the long run..

[goldielocke76]

I switched the pump it was to strong found him stuck twice more. I will move him to the 55g tomorrow and move the filter so not to worry about the cycle. I gave him a big snail from petsmart as well as omega krill not even a nibble. This nitrate will be a problem even when I had a 24x7 drip I couldn't break 40ppm in other tanks I would need too do 4 50%power week just to get to 20ppm. But that not impossible for me to do. So every thinks that it's the nitrates? So I will move him and see if he will eat.

Good thing you swapped pumps, because it prolly was only time before he was stuck for the last time...

Also, when you say "big snail" you aren't talking about the mystery snails right? Because I know that Petsmart doesn't sell the pest snails, only the mystery snails, and I am not sure if those are too hard for a puffer or not. Better to err on the side of caution however. And, how do you treat the water that goes into the tank on a drip system? If you already have high nitrates in a tank, adding water, no matter how slowly, that has not been treated by a conditioner like prime, could add to your nitrates no matter what. Before you move him, seriously consider making the tank full marine and letting it cycle before changing everything over and having to raise the salinity by .02 ppm every water change. I was given advice by sevenyearnight, saying that she would have just put Balki in full marine rather than acclimating him after the fact (I am doing research to get a GSP now, so that's why she told me). It would be alot of work up front, having to fight the nitrates and what not, but, in the long run, it might be cheaper and less work if you get him healthy, then drip acclimate him to full marine once the tank is up and running. How long have you had your puff?

[sevenyearnight]

A drop system would only add nitrates to his water if he is unfortunate enough to have tap water with high nitrates, and usually this is not the case.

[sevenyearnight]

I am hoping that I have read everything thoroughly, and as far as your initial question goes, I'll do my best to answer.
He's in a 20 gallon FW tank, and your nitrates are a little high, and he should be in at least 1.010 salinity, but for now immediately speaking, continue with the suggested large partial water changes to keep the nitrates under 20.
You are asking about setting up his 55 as marine, read this article, it should answer any questions you have. http://www.reefland.com/forum/saltwater ... arium.html
This process shouldn't be rushed.
You can drip acclimate your puffer over several hours to a fully cycled marine tank.
In the mean time, you can just wait it out, and do however many water changes at whatever schedule to keep the nitrates under 20.

[goldielocke76]

+1