3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Demosoc
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3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by Demosoc »

1. ph- 7.2
ammonia- 0
nitrite- 0
nitrate- 10
salinity- 1.004
temperature- 81.5F

2. 55 gallon with Magnum 350, air pump, live plants
3 GSPs, one 2" two 2.5"
1 Butterfly Pleco
10 Bumblebee Gobies
2 Banjo Catfish
Uneaten ghost shrimp

3. Feeding- once daily rotation of mussel on the half shell, bloodworms, brine shrimp, mealworms, and crickets. Snails constantly available.
Water Changes - 30-50% bi-weekly, gravel vac monthly
Products- API Stress Coat at the higher of the two listed doses yesterday, 55ml total, API Aquarium Salt

4. Because of the spread of symptoms (hyperventilation, scratching, floating unusually at the surface, a couple instances of aimless swimming) from one of the three puffers to most of the tankmates over the last couple weeks, we did a 75% water change yesterday thinking that the problem might be heavy metals from old pipes. The water parameters were slightly different prior to this, but not significant. (i.e. 30ish ppm nitrate etc.) The symptoms are still present and we are leaning heavily towards gill flukes which neither of us have had dealt with before.

5. 6 months, fully established, parameters great.

Continued from 4- About 4 months ago, most of the inhabitants were shipped overnight from Wisconsin. Only one raised concern on arrival, one of the two larger GSPs, which had the telltale gray stomach which hasn't changed since. Around a month later, we noticed all of the GSPs scratching against ornaments and live plants. This never occurred prior to the shipment, and the water parameters were fine, so we assumed that there might be some irritant from the well water or from old pipes. Substantial water changes from other sources have likely ruled this out. Aside from the slight gray tint on the one GSP, and their infrequent scratching, there were no other symptoms. Yesterday, all of the tank inhabitants abruptly started showing the above listed symptoms. (Hyperventilation, floating at the surface, some aimless swimming, unchanged scratching.) In a controlled panic, we did a 75% water change after ensuring that the ph wouldn't spike dangerously. On a side note, the long-term gray bellied puffer's eyes have been different from the other two with what looks like a green dot on the pupils. Yesterday, we saw this for the first time on our mutual most beloved fish, the smallest of the 3 GSPs. I have never heard of it but can only assume it is related. I have purchased some Kordon Formalin 3 and intend on doing short term baths with the recommended dosage, first on the gobies as guinea pigs, then progressing up to the GSPs. I am hoping that someone has had experience with gill flukes, treatment of them, and/or any sensitivities of the listed fish to Formalin. (I know the shrimp and snails are toast; don't care.) Thank you for any insights or advice.
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Re: 3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by Pufferpunk »

[welcome]
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you on this. I wanted to be sure I had time to read your long post thoroughly. Are you absolutely sure there are no ich spots on the fish?

One of ny other concerns (other than your fish being ill) is your stocking. The only BW fish you have in there are the puffers. They require a higher SG than they are in now (lower SG is compromising their immune system). Your puffers may seem OK in the 55g now but you're going to have to upgrade them to 2x that size, just for them alone & get the rest of your fish in FW, ASAP.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28113

I'd follow these directions for now & do not use those meds you have on your puffers. You may add Melafix to heal any wounds caused by parasites to them.
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=28469
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Pufferpunk
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My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
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T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
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C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: 3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by Pufferpunk »

[welcome]
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you on this. I wanted to be sure I had time to read your long post thoroughly. Are you absolutely sure there are no ich spots on the fish?

One of my other concerns (other than your fish being ill) is your stocking. The only BW fish you have in there are the puffers. They require a higher SG than they are in now (lower SG is compromising their immune system). Your puffers may seem OK in the 55g now but you're going to have to upgrade them to 2x that size, just for them alone & get the rest of your fish in FW, ASAP.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28113

I'd follow these directions for now & do not use those meds you have on your puffers. You may add Melafix to heal any wounds caused by parasites to them.
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=28469
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: 3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by sevenyearnight »

Did you have all the fish for 4 months without disease?
Without a host to introduce disease/parasites, I'd imagine something would have become more obvious within 4 months.

BB Gobies are brackish, but low end, not high end like GSP's. The other fish need very soft, acidic fresh water, and GSP above 2" should be in 1.010 - 1.015 SG. Neither fish will do well very long in conditions they are not genetically adapted to tolerate. They will become prone to disease and premature death.

If your water is possibly containing metals, swap out your conditioner with Seachem Prime, double the dose. It does a better job than what you have.
Make sure you provide extra aeration while medicating, especially watch for them gathering and gaping ay the surface.

Formaldehyde based medications are not puffer safe.
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Demosoc
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Re: 3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by Demosoc »

Formaldehyde based medications are not puffer safe.
Thank you.^^ This was helpful. We instead used API General Cure (Praziquantel+Metronidazole) and saw remarkably fast improvement in both appearance and behavior. The GSP which has had a half grey belly since he was shipped is virtually all white for the first time since he was shipped, and we are only 6 hours in to a 4 day treatment.

Thanks both of you for your other concerns; we have been planning on raising the salinity and another tank is available for the others.
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Re: 3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by Pufferpunk »

I'm glad they're feeling better!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: 3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by DrKennethNoisewater »

good job getting your fish better!
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sevenyearnight
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Re: 3 sick GSPs, assuming gill flukes

Post by sevenyearnight »

Great news!
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