I'm in the process of trying to trim my 5+ yr old A. Modestus' teeth. I'm using MS-222 that I got from Pufferpunk. I apparently did not dose him properly because after almost 15 minutes he was breathing pretty strongly and would react to my touch (although he was mainly just sitting there in the dose container until I'd do something).
I used a one gallon water jug that I cut the top half off of for the dosing container. I filled it so there was about 1/3 gallon probably in there. I added, I would guess, about 1/12 teaspoon (I was using a 1/4 teaspoon to scoop), stirred well, and added Bak Mei, my Modestus. I covered the container with a towel and he seemed to relax right away, but he never seemed "out" to me. I added a minute pinch more after 10 mins (as advised here: http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment ... e-oil.html)... it was maybe 1/32 teaspoon. After a few more mins, I didn't feel comfortable having him in any more so I put him in the recovery bucket and tried to trim his teeth.
Besides the fact that my net was not as well-suited for the job as I'd hoped... he recovered VERY quickly once in the recovery bucket. I did not have any time to get to his teeth.
Did I not dose enough? Did I not wait long enough?
How soon until I can try again? And can I use the same medicated water?
Thanks!
MS-222/Finquel frequency
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Dinsdale
- Figure 8 Puffer
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- Location: N. Illinois
Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
Additional question: is it safe to trim his teeth out of the water if he is still visibly breathing? I was trying not to...
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Pufferpunk
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Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
Yes, that is what you were supposed to do! give him a couple days off & try again.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Dinsdale
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:10 am
- My Puffers: Bak Mei, ~4" Auriglobus Modestus. In a 55g tank (since '06) w/ some guppies he pays no attention to.
- Location (country): USA
- Location: N. Illinois
Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
Ok, that's good to know. I think I need an extra set of hands and a bigger net next time.
It is getting really hard for him to eat so I'm so anxious to get his trimmed. I think he'll be okay for two more days, though... I don't usually feed him bloodworms, but I've been feeding him thawed bloodworms the past few days just because it seems easier for him to eat. He's now to the point he can't bite around stuff, he has to get it in around the sides of his teeth...
ugh. I put this off for too long because I was afraid to use clove oil again (wish I'd found out about MS-222 sooner).
I think he's still eating enough to get by, though... it looks like he pooped a little in the dosing container. He doesn't look starved at all, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to tell on a Modestus.
It is getting really hard for him to eat so I'm so anxious to get his trimmed. I think he'll be okay for two more days, though... I don't usually feed him bloodworms, but I've been feeding him thawed bloodworms the past few days just because it seems easier for him to eat. He's now to the point he can't bite around stuff, he has to get it in around the sides of his teeth...
ugh. I put this off for too long because I was afraid to use clove oil again (wish I'd found out about MS-222 sooner).I think he's still eating enough to get by, though... it looks like he pooped a little in the dosing container. He doesn't look starved at all, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to tell on a Modestus.
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J-P
- Former Staff Member
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Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
Isn't 15 mins under a tad long?
The trim shouldn't take more than 5 min no?
The trim shouldn't take more than 5 min no?
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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Pufferpunk
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Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
MS-222 is very safe for long-term tranq, used for preforming surgeries on fish. This particular tranq can even be used for shipping fish.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
Dinsdale
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:10 am
- My Puffers: Bak Mei, ~4" Auriglobus Modestus. In a 55g tank (since '06) w/ some guppies he pays no attention to.
- Location (country): USA
- Location: N. Illinois
Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
Should I be expecting him to roll over on his side/back, his breathing very slow?
Should I try a larger dose next time?
Should I try a larger dose next time?
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Pufferpunk
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T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
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DPs
suvattii
burrfish
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Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
Mine laid down on it's side.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
J-P
- Former Staff Member
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Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
PP may disagree with me, but IMO, no. If the fish is relaxed, and easy to handle, than I would say go for it. MS-222 does have lethal dosage depending on the body weight of the fish.Dinsdale wrote:Should I be expecting him to roll over on his side/back, his breathing very slow?
Should I try a larger dose next time?
Granted, she has more experience than I do with this product. I just err on the conservative side because, I have read enough labels and know that each situation is different. Keep in mind it is a general sedative vs. a localized one. The fish doesn't have to be completely "out" to preform the trim IMO.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
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T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: MS-222/Finquel frequency
J-P is right. I've always just used the amount I showed you with 2 cups of water.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"