MBU Puffer drifting...

[scpion]

Hi, hope that someone can help me..

I have a 7in MBU puffer for ard 3 months now. It was about 5in then. As this fish is super rare from where I am from, there was not much advise from the store owner either.. I bought it on impulse..

Then I went back and did some research and to my horror then I know this is potentially a huge fish and needs 1000g tank.. I feel very bad now as the biggest that can fit is a 4ft x 2ft x 2ft..

Has been feeding him market prawn, cockles, mussle randomly once every day. Appetite was good, gets excited when he see me holding the food bowl but strange that he never like to explore the whole tank and just stays and swim at one corner..

Problem now is since 2days ago, he did not greet me as usual when i was holding his feeding bowl.. he ate his prawn very slowly, chew the prawn and spit out half.. then swims away. It was pretty obvious something is wrong so I did a 70% water change. Ever since the water change till today, very often I would see him drifting head 45degree down (sometimes vertically) in the tank.. did not feed yesterday. Today he ate a bit of prawn.. last fed 2days ago b4 water change. no signs of poop till now. there are little strings of tiny bubble that sticks to him too.

After that water change, epsom salt(1tb/5gallon) and a dewormer (Miracle baby MQ-04 super dewormer / according to instruction) was used.

I used the dewormer as his poop before this happen was often sausage chain-like orange/ whitish colour. And I notice usually after cockle or mussel, the poop will be greyish or green mess..


Symtoms are -

drifting head 45degree down (sometimes vertically), does not really swim around, eyes still respond to movement. no other visible changes to body, does not seems bloated, nothing wrong at anus, "coughing" sometimes.. today



Water parameter b4 that water change,

ammonia - <0.02ppm
no2 - 0
no3 - 40ppm ( I know its a bit high.. last water change just 1 week ago 50%)
temp - 27 degree celcius


water parameter now,

ammonia - <0.02ppm
no2 - 0
no3 - 20ppm
temp - 30 degree celcius ( instruction to increase temp by dewormer)


Tank is quite heavily planted ( I got lots of hornwort and water wisteria to supress no3, hopefully...)
Filtration - 1 overhead specifically for 4ft tank and a canister ( I do not know the turnover rate as it was passed down to me )
Tank has been running for 6mths.
No other tankmates.

I know the tank is too small, pls do not blast me for it.. I love my fish!

[RVS]

It looks like a depressive attitude, i don't know too much about MBU cuz I've never that with one... but puffers behaviors are similar from one to other species.

I guess it could be 2 reasons for this behavior:
1.- Oxygen Problem, tere is not enough oxygen on water, maybe cuz the filter is not big enough... with puffers i always used filters that moves 6 to 8 times the tank water (example, if it is a 100g tank, a 600g/h will be the minimum filter power)
¿Do you use a Air Pump to free some air into the tank? its important with bigg fish to have air diffuser in the water, that will guaranty there is enough Oxygen.

2.- Bad Food, i remember once i give a juicy mussel that i buy in the local market to my M. Abei...
He just eat the half, and spit the rest... he was 3 or 4 days with out taking food and after a big water change (30%) with lower temperature (tank Tº was on 28ºC, water change Tº was 24ºC) he recovered happiness and start eating and been active again.

i hope this info help you, lets wait for the Puffmasters, maybe they have a better answer!

[sevenyearnight]

I have only a few suggestions. The first thing that stood out was that your NO3 is quite high considering you do 50% water changes weekly, but that does make sense for the gigantic waste they produce and the size of tank. Kick up the water changes to twice or three times a week, whatever you need to do to keep the nitrates under 20. They are pretty sensitive to water parameters, that may be a huge part of his behavior.

Also, it does indeed sound like he has internal parasites, but puffers are very sensitive to medications, and I am not familiar with the one you named. I'm very concerned that maybe that medication could be hurting him. For internal parasites, praziquantel and metronidazol are used, but the food must be soaked in a marinade of it (Small amount of tank water, and a small amount of medicine) in order for it to work. Adding dewormer to the water won't work, it has to get inside them. Garlic extract, or pressed garlic is added to the medicated water food soak to help stimulate the fish to eat it.
There is an article in the library that explains how to treat for internal parasites.

For now, water changes, especially if the medication was added to the water.

Good luck.

[Reaperpilot2014]

+1 to the above.

You need to lower the temperature. 86F won't help much with IPs, and is quite high for any fish. Not only can it be lethal to your puffer by itself, but it lowers the oxygen content in the water.

The nitrates are still high. For that size tank, you will need to do water changes about every other day in order to keep nitrates down closer to 5-10. I know you said that a bigger tank will not fit, but the one he is in will lead to a shortened life, weakened immunity, and other problems. I know you said not to blast you, and I'm not trying to, so please just take it as it is. Until that larger tank becomes a possibility, I would strongly encourage you to to more frequent water changes so he can stay as healthy as possible. If a larger tank is not a possibility in the near future, you may need to find him another home eventually.

[sevenyearnight]

86°? I must have missed that!
+1 heat does not effect IP's, but it can effect your puffer, I'd say take the temp down slowly, and ideally 76 - 78° F.

[scpion]

Hmm... I was just following the in instruction for the dewormer. set temp to 30 to 32 degrees celcius.. I will be doing 70% again immediately to remove the med and lower the temp as water from my tap is abt 28 degree. So I guess the epsom salt is fine then?

I understand 30 degree is quite high so I actually put in extra aeration that caused alot of fine bubbles in the water. Then I saw the little string of fine bubble on him then I did some reading on the internet. I read something like nitrogen poisoning thats when I stopped and tried to disturb the surface to neutralise it. Now, my surface has waves... at least this will bring o2 in also and safer..



Reaperpilot, appreciate the genuine advice. My "blasting" refers to some other forums that I have seen with most of the comments was ranting away at the tank size and not a piece of proper advice.

So I guess now, more frequent water change, lower the temp, continue with the epsom? and monitor..

[sevenyearnight]

Can you get praziquantel and/or metronidazole? The IP's do need to be treated.

[scpion]

Can you get praziquantel and/or metronidazole? The IP's do need to be treated.

Will head down to the store later and see if they carry any. thanks! Love this forum!!

[sevenyearnight]

Also don't change the temp too quickly

[sevenyearnight]

What drugs are in the medicine you bought? It might contain one or both. Then you could just use it to soak the food in.

[scpion]

What drugs are in the medicine you bought? It might contain one or both. Then you could just use it to soak the food in.

There no ingredient label on the bottle.. I try google it.

[scpion]

Couldnt find much details, even from the company.. but some forums suggest it may contain metronidazole or some sort..

[sevenyearnight]

Ah, I see, I wouldn't trust that personally.

[scpion]

Just an update:

Now, he seem much better, still drift around but not as much and have not seen him doing vertical yet.

He/she is swimming more today but staying very low close to the substrate. seems terrified of me though. Have not notice any pooping since he fell ill (3days ago).

[RVS]

Hehehe it was a temperature trouble.
MBU should never live above 27º celcius, the best is 25º, thats what i read... Like our friend says, higher temperatures bring down the oxygen levels and rise the "N" levels... puffers are very sensitive to this.

If he/she (¿did he/she already have a name?) looks better i will just add pure metronidazol to prevent any sickness sign.

PD: i luv this forum to!