Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
J-P
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Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
copper is typically safe for fish when used and administered correctly... it is only inverts that it is deadly to in higher concentrations.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
Can you link to what you found? I was under the impression this was an external disease.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Reaperpilot2014
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Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
If used and administered correctly is right. It has the potential to greatly impact oxygen, ph, and beneficial bacteria when dosed incorrectly.
In any case, I prefer Ich Attack to harsh chemical like Malachite Green and Formalin.
In any case, I prefer Ich Attack to harsh chemical like Malachite Green and Formalin.
It's a crayfish! It's a snail! It's a... ah who cares?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
-
sevenyearnight
Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
I'm curious about this too.Pufferpunk wrote:Can you link to what you found? I was under the impression this was an external disease.
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Reaperpilot2014
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30g - 1 GSP "Demon"
15g - 1 C. Irrubesco "Raoden"
29g - 1 Figure 8 - Looking for good name ideas...
29g - Ramshorn, Marmorkreb, Cherry & Ghost Shrimp Breeder Tank
10 wonderful years with puffers! - Location (country): USA
- Location: Utah
Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
That's my understanding as well, however, this isn't the exact same strain of ich we are used to hearing about.
Most of what I learned came from a friend that works in food salmon industry management. He said that what they've discovered is that what they though was a fungus is actually a strain of ich, and coats internal organs in addition to normal symptoms. It has been seen in the aquarium industry when fish are necropsied at times.
There are a good number of articles out there on Ichthyophonus hoferi, and some of them even explain how it isn't a fungus as previously thought, but the research connecting it as one of the types of ich we see in the aquarium trade is still unpublished.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/15 ... -ichfish15
Most of what I learned came from a friend that works in food salmon industry management. He said that what they've discovered is that what they though was a fungus is actually a strain of ich, and coats internal organs in addition to normal symptoms. It has been seen in the aquarium industry when fish are necropsied at times.
There are a good number of articles out there on Ichthyophonus hoferi, and some of them even explain how it isn't a fungus as previously thought, but the research connecting it as one of the types of ich we see in the aquarium trade is still unpublished.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/15 ... -ichfish15
It's a crayfish! It's a snail! It's a... ah who cares?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
-
Reaperpilot2014
- Fahaka Puffer
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- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:38 am
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55g - 3 SA Puffers "Larry, Curly, * Moe"
30g - 1 GSP "Demon"
15g - 1 C. Irrubesco "Raoden"
29g - 1 Figure 8 - Looking for good name ideas...
29g - Ramshorn, Marmorkreb, Cherry & Ghost Shrimp Breeder Tank
10 wonderful years with puffers! - Location (country): USA
- Location: Utah
Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
That's just a newspaper article, but if you google Ichthyophonus hoferi you will be able to find more.
Here's a picture my friend just sent to me. It's a heart and another organ with the disease collected from a Chinook salmon.
Here's a picture my friend just sent to me. It's a heart and another organ with the disease collected from a Chinook salmon.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
It's a crayfish! It's a snail! It's a... ah who cares?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
-
J-P
- Former Staff Member
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- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): Japan
- Location: Sasebo, Nagasaki, Japan
Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
ahh that is why there are QT & hospital tanksReaperpilot2014 wrote:If used and administered correctly is right. It has the potential to greatly impact oxygen, ph, and beneficial bacteria when dosed incorrectly.
In any case, I prefer Ich Attack to harsh chemical like Malachite Green and Formalin.
I am not disagreeing with you on the meds, but in certain cases you do have to break out the strong stuff.if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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Reaperpilot2014
- Fahaka Puffer
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55g - 3 SA Puffers "Larry, Curly, * Moe"
30g - 1 GSP "Demon"
15g - 1 C. Irrubesco "Raoden"
29g - 1 Figure 8 - Looking for good name ideas...
29g - Ramshorn, Marmorkreb, Cherry & Ghost Shrimp Breeder Tank
10 wonderful years with puffers! - Location (country): USA
- Location: Utah
Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
Isn't the general rule with the "strong meds" to dose only half for a longer period of time? At least for puffers?
If only more people used QT and hospital tanks.
My fish think my QT is boring I'm sure lol, but it's for their own good.
If only more people used QT and hospital tanks.
My fish think my QT is boring I'm sure lol, but it's for their own good.It's a crayfish! It's a snail! It's a... ah who cares?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
-
J-P
- Former Staff Member
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- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 am
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- Location: Sasebo, Nagasaki, Japan
Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
depends on the situation; is it a dip or a full QT dose? The higher ups may have an answer to that, but I would assume in a QT tank 1/2 dose for long term treatment and full dose with a dip.
We are a little off topic but as to the effects of copper I trust the OP has the point.
We are a little off topic but as to the effects of copper I trust the OP has the point.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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Pufferpunk
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T lineatus
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A modestus
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C valentini
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C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
More times than often, using any meds at 1/2 dose, only makes the pathogen,s immune to the meds. Since this seems to be only a mild case of ich, I don't see why the salt method wasn't tried 1st.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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RTR
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Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
Whoever told you that FW Ich is an internal tissue disease frankly has no clue about the infection. That is incorrect. It is basically a gill infection.
Ich is a temperate water parasite which attacks the gills preferentially, as they have such a good blood supply. In heavy infections the parasites will infect the body skin and fins. Properly treated Ich is cured and that is it provided that the parasite is not re-introduced. But in the hobby it is fairly common for Ich to be suppressed but not cured, leaving chronic low-grade gill infections which may explode into visible external Ich on body or fins. As PP said, stress can trigger an outbreak from a low-grade infection. Insufficiently or incorrectly treated Ich is common in pet stores. That is part of why quarantine is so important. If is happens, it is better in QT.
I don't know the scale of the fish or the substrate, but that substrate looks inappropriate for the Fahaka - it would be impossible to vacuum. That really is not a good situation unless the fish is tiny - but it shows striping already, so it should not be small.
HTH
Ich is a temperate water parasite which attacks the gills preferentially, as they have such a good blood supply. In heavy infections the parasites will infect the body skin and fins. Properly treated Ich is cured and that is it provided that the parasite is not re-introduced. But in the hobby it is fairly common for Ich to be suppressed but not cured, leaving chronic low-grade gill infections which may explode into visible external Ich on body or fins. As PP said, stress can trigger an outbreak from a low-grade infection. Insufficiently or incorrectly treated Ich is common in pet stores. That is part of why quarantine is so important. If is happens, it is better in QT.
I don't know the scale of the fish or the substrate, but that substrate looks inappropriate for the Fahaka - it would be impossible to vacuum. That really is not a good situation unless the fish is tiny - but it shows striping already, so it should not be small.
HTH
Where's the fish? - Neptune
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Reaperpilot2014
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55g - 3 SA Puffers "Larry, Curly, * Moe"
30g - 1 GSP "Demon"
15g - 1 C. Irrubesco "Raoden"
29g - 1 Figure 8 - Looking for good name ideas...
29g - Ramshorn, Marmorkreb, Cherry & Ghost Shrimp Breeder Tank
10 wonderful years with puffers! - Location (country): USA
- Location: Utah
Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
Thanks RTR! Your answers are always greatly appreciated!
It's a crayfish! It's a snail! It's a... ah who cares?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
Nom nom nom!...
Tank: 4 liter custom-shaped sphere
Contents: 1 Brainfish
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates: ?
Problem: Cloudy/muddy water
Can you help me?
-
sevenyearnight
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Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
I see where the confusion may have been; freshwater ich is Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, but that fungal organ disease is Ichthyophonus hoferi, the names look similar.
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J-P
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Re: Ich? Hole in the head? Fungus?
WB how yous your off line tutorial?
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
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sevenyearnight
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