Hi All!!

[goldielocke76]

Hello!! =D

My name is Brandie, and I am currently doing TONS of research, getting ready to set up my 20 gallon for a F8 puffer.

The pet store I plan to get him from sells him as fresh water, but I know he needs brackish water. I have an Aqua-clear 30 filter with biomax and a Hydrometer coming to me on Wednesday. Tank is currently NOT set up, and puffer is not bought. I have had tanks all my life, but I find myself taken with the puffer and I want to do things extra right, haha. I know he needs lots of hiding spots, and a sandy substrate with a pretty diverse diet, and that the tank needs to complete it's nitrogen cycle before you add the fish, but any other advice you f8 owners have would be greatly appreciated. I have done tons of research, but it would be nice to get some feedback from people who actually know what they are doing, and not their best guess. =)

Couple of questions that I have are:
-I know they need 15 gal min and an additional 10 gallons for each puffer after that. If I plan to do weekly 25% water changes, provide lots of hiding spots, and a great diet, can two f8's coexist in a 20 gallon peacefully (with a tank upgrade in the future?)
-can I have other fish, such as catfish (for bottom cleaning) and a small (if there is such a thing) pleco? Wasn't sure how to keep the substrate clean. Also, do they do well by themselves, or should they have other tank mates?

***I will ask more as answers come in =) please keep in mind I only ask because I have seen different things online, and that I really don't know, I'm just trying to find out so I can do what's best for my new little guy coming soon.

Again, anything else that I need to know would be appreciated! I look forward to hearing from you all, getting to know you and hopefully posting pics of my puffer! (Won't be for anther couple of weeks yet. =] )

-Brandie

[xrayjeeper83]

the only advise id give(ive never owned one) is to step up your filter size. With puffers the general rule of thumb is to have 10x turn over ie 20g tank 200gph filter.


Ok I lied ill talk about other stuff too lol.

I wouldnt push it with the tank size. And for extra tank mates, I dont what catfish that would do good in brackish water.

[goldielocke76]

Thanks =D Good to know. I just wish I had asked sooner-- wouldn't have to pay for return shipping on the filter LOL

What size filter should I get then? I definitely plan on getting a bigger tank at some point in the near future, so I am hoping to maybe kill two birds with one stone here. I was looking at a 70...as far as filters go, can you really ever get too big of a filter?

As for the tank mates, is there any suggestions on what will keep the substrate clean? One of the gals at the local pet shop was talking about how there are three different level in a tank and a level of "bottom" fish (for sanitary habits) were a must. I am not sure how true this is for a puffer tank, but that is where my question stems from.

Also, I know you said not to push it with the tank size, but I was hoping to get two while they were still relatively young. But if it cannot be done, I would rather have one healthy one than struggle with two sick ones. More advice on this would be appreciative.

And one more thing, LoL "With puffers the general rule of thumb is to have 10x turn over ie 20g tank 200gph filter. " <-- Mind helping me out with this, I understand that you need a turn over of 200gph, but I am not sure what size filter this translates to...sorry! = / Still relatively new to the whole complex tank idea. I have had tanks, but nothing as complex as this will be. I am totally up for the challenge, I just need to do some more learning first. =)

[Salmon]

South American Bumblebee Catfish

[xrayjeeper83]

You cant over filter. But with that said you can have to much flow.
What size do you plan up stepping up to you?

[goldielocke76]

Nothing past a 70 gallon at this point. Maybe 40-50. Until we get a bigger place, I can't do anything bigger. And, need to start small and work myself up.

[xrayjeeper83]

AC 70, 110 when you get to the 70g

[Reaperpilot2014]

Congrats on your decision to get a figure 8 and welcome to the forum!

You mentioned possible wanting to get 2 figure 8's. It CAN work, but they are a very aggressive species and will not usually tolerate their own kind, or other fish for that matter. They will fin-nip or kill each other or other fish and are best kept in a species tank.

You also said that your tank is not set up yet. Make sure you give yourself time to cycle the tank before you add the puffer, as they are extremely intolerant of even a little ammonia or nitrites in the water.

[goldielocke76]

Thank you Xray for the info!

@Reaper-- thanks! I am glad that I stumbled upon this site.....Can it work if I get them young enough? The ones at the shop are under 2 inches. I wasn't sure, and have heard mixed things via internet and fish stores. They are in a smaller tank right now with about 8 of them. I didn't look too closely at them, because at the time, I wasn't interested. But when I read about their personalities, I had to do more research and find out about them. =) the possibility of other tank mates is my biggest quandary at the present time-- how many, of what, etc, etc. Just want to do what's best.

What about tank set ups? Does any one have any good tank deco recommendations that will a. make it aesthetic, and b. provide good hidey holes for the puff? Also, substrate. Can you "gravel" vac sand? Sorry guys, too many questions still, haha

[goldielocke76]

Ok, so after reading tons of the posts on the BW forum, I have decided that I prolly should stick with 2 BBGs and 1 F8....kinda sad, but I want him/her to be happy and content. Maybe when we have a bigger house, we could do more...

Now to order new filter, get the substrate, set the tank up and let it cycle....waiting = hardest part, haha

Thank you all for your continued patience with my pestering. Please don't hesitate to PM me or post a message with advice-- the more I know, the better off I will be in the long run.

Quick question: how long should I let a tank cycle? The pet shop here rents out giant danios, I was thinking of grabbing a few after the tank was set up and running so it could cycle faster (if there is such a thing?) Also, a list of water conditioners/cyclers and their brands would be a great help. Almost afraid to ask people at the shop seeing how they keep 7-8 F8P's in one little tank. Going from FW--> BW is going to be a pain. =(

[Reaperpilot2014]

@Reaper-- thanks! I am glad that I stumbled upon this site.....Can it work if I get them young enough? The ones at the shop are under 2 inches. I wasn't sure, and have heard mixed things via internet and fish stores. They are in a smaller tank right now with about 8 of them. I didn't look too closely at them, because at the time, I wasn't interested. But when I read about their personalities, I had to do more research and find out about them. =) the possibility of other tank mates is my biggest quandary at the present time-- how many, of what, etc, etc. Just want to do what's best.

What about tank set ups? Does any one have any good tank deco recommendations that will a. make it aesthetic, and b. provide good hidey holes for the puff? Also, substrate. Can you "gravel" vac sand? Sorry guys, too many questions still, haha

Before jumping to tankmates and such, you did say you knew about the minimum 15 gallon requirement and are looking at an upgrade in the future, but I just wanted to mention that a single Figure 8 puffer really ought to have 30 gallons, IMHO. Once you add another figure 8, and then are looking at even more tankmates, you are facing a serious overstocking issue.

3 things to consider:

1. Once again I would say it CAN work, but it really depends on the individual puffer. They tend to be okay together when they are small, but like most puffers, grow more aggressive as mature. If you get 2 males you'd really be in trouble later. It's my personal preference to keep all puffers except South American puffers in a tank by themselves to avoid any problems or stress to them. That said, if you decide you absolutely want tank mates, I would avoid getting a second puffer and go for bumblebee gobies, which is the only fish I haven't really heard of figure 8's wanting to hurt (haven't tried them myself). Mine even bit my pleco in half.

2. Another thing to consider is whether the puffer can get its food. From my experience, puffers are generally slower/take their time when looking at and then eating food. If you drop some brine shrimp in for your little guy, any other fish generally gobble it all up before the Figure 8 has decided it's worth eating. Feeding is easier later, however, when your puffer is large enough to start eating snails, baby crays, etc.

3. Figure 8s are very intelligent and personable, but IME tend to be more shy when kept with tankmates. While a single fish in a 20 gallon tank may not seem interesting when they are small, it can look great if it is well-planted and has lots of hiding spaces. You will find that your figure 8 is like a small, quiet, snail-eating puppy. (They know who feeds them )

I don't want to discourage you from trying tankmates if that is what you really want to do, I've just come to feel that puffers really belong by themselves unless you are an expert trying to breed them in the proper conditions (which I'm not). This is long, but hopefully it helps a bit.

For tank setups, I personally would stick with plastic plants in brackish water unless you want to acclimate freshwater plants slowly. The puffers tend to bite the leaves if any food falls on them. Using river stones, slate, or other non-limestone rocks to build a cave for them can be nice too. Some people like to imitate the natural habitat they live in, but in the end it comes down to personal preference. Just make sure he has plenty of cover and hiding spots. Figure 8's don't burrow in the sand (that I've ever seen) like some species of puffer, so either gravel or sand is fine. Gravel is a little easier to clean, while I like the look of sand better (aragonite).

Once again, make sure to cycle your tank before picking your puffer up, as they are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. Also, do you have a good way to measure specific gravity, as well as a good salt? (ie instant ocean)

This is oober long, but hopefully helps. Let me know if you have any questions or if I confused you with my rambling. This is all just from my experience. If RTR or Pufferpunk come along you will get more official information.

[Reaperpilot2014]

It took me so long to write that you answered most of your questions lol. Whether you use a fishless cycle, or cycle with fish, it generally takes about 4-6 weeks from my experience. You will see ammonia go up, then nitrites, and eventually those two will go to 0 and you will just have nitrates in the tank. The easiest way to know if your tank is cycled is to wait for that Ammonia = 0, Nitrites = 0, and Nitrates = something else on your test kit. There are products that contain nitrifying bacteria that can speed up the process.

[Pufftastic]

Hi Brandie! I recently became the owner of 2 F8 puffers myself, so I just went through learning the answers to all the questions you're asking. Setting up a new tank is fun, isn't it?

For the filters, what they mean by 10x turnover is this: Find out how many GPH (gallons per hour) the filter(s) handle, and make sure that they are at least 10 times the tank volume. So, for example, for a 29 gallon tank, you want a filter or filters that have an output of at least 290 gph (10 x 29). For a 55 gallon tank, at least 550 gph, etc. Puffers are super-messy and need that extra filtration (I was used to this because I also keep large fancy goldfish, which also require at least 10x turnover). Keep in mind, though, that all that filtration doesn't mean you can slack off on water changes. 50% WC per week, minimum, to maintain good water quality for puffers.

My puffer tank is the first one I've ever had with a sand substrate. I'm finding that it's easier to maintain than I had thought. No, you can't vacuum it like you would do to gravel (the sand is too light and would just get sucked up the gravel vacuum). But the neat thing about sand is that the debris/solid waste stays ABOVE the sand bed -- and generally gets sucked up by the filter. During my weekly water changes, I run the gravel vacuum lightly about 2 inches above the sand bed to grab any debris the filter didn't get. Then I stir the sand thoroughly so that it won't form dangerous anaerobic pockets. Keep your sand layer about 1 to 2" deep to make maintenance easier.

I went with aragonite sand per RTR's suggestion (he's the puffer guru!). Aragonite helps maintain a steady, higher-level pH, which puffers prefer. I have to say, too, that the white aragonite sand looks super-cool in my tank.

I have 2 baby F8s myself, each about 1.5" (they were about an inch when I got them). One of the puffers is definitely dominant over the other one, and gets more than his share of the food at feeding time (I have to feed extra to make sure the non-dominant puff gets enough to eat). He also chases the other puffer off while eating. Other than at feeding time, they seem to get along well, but I'm aware that they're juveniles and that this might very well change as they hit adolescence. I'm prepared to rehome one of them if necessary.

I have a few balloon mollies in the tank with them, and they're excellent at picking up any scraps the puffers leave behind (I also feed them their own small veggie-based pellets for tropicals). So far, the puffers have utterly ignored the mollies, but again, that may change and I'm prepared to remove the mollies if the need arises.

Hope that info is helpful! Embarking on keeping F8s has been one of the most enjoyable adventures I've had in aquarium keeping. F8s are fun!

[goldielocke76]

Thank you so much! Between getting to ask actual peolple my questions, and reading thru the forum, I am learning so much! All of it has been very helpful.

I have to send my filter back = / I didn't grab the Ontrac guy fast enough to refuse the package. /sigh. It will be a few more days yet before I can get a tank set up-- the waiting it killing me xD

After doing more reading, looks like I will probably get argonite for the substrate. The little shop down town Campbell area has a decent selection.

So, 50% water changes...I can do that. LoL do they make big enough buckets? Haha. I am in an apartment, so water changing is going to be a challenge. Any one have any recommendations for a process that will make the WCs any smoother for me and the lil puff? Any advice would be great.

Any more thoughts or feedback, please don't hesitate to send it my way!

[xrayjeeper83]

while your F8 is fresh water(assuming he will be that way when you get him) I would just get a hose that can connect to the faucet(called a python, they do have knock offs that work just as well). When he goes BW get a 5g bucket from home depot for cheap and use it to mix your water, and keep the hose to drain the tank.

When I was in a second store I just used a regular hose to drain it and ran it out the door and down the stairs. Then used my Python hose(I actually have a knock off version) to refill it. Just use the knock off now that im on the 1st floor and dont have to go as far.