Dragon Goby and F8's

[P4radigm]

I've recently converted my 29 gallon aquarium over to brackish (or rather I'm still raising salinity, up to ~1.004, aiming for ~1.006) and today I put my first fish in, a dragon goby that the LFS convinced me was okay for a 29 gallon, but nothing smaller. I was skeptical then, though I found a petfish article listing 30 gallons as minimum (that was on my phone while at the LFS), and I later (at home on my PC) found a few posts implying that PufferPunk kept 2 F8's and a Dragon Goby together in a 29 gallon tank for some time.

Anyway, I guess my biggest concern is that a 29 gallon will be too small for him to live in long term. The tank is well filtered (One Eheim 2234, soon to add one AquaClear 50 or 70) and is cycled. My original plan was 2 F8's and 5 BBGs, but the LFS didn't have F8's, only had 2 BBG's (which I did not buy), and I ended up taking the Dragon Goby home. He is now acclimated and is getting some color back. He has a large piece of fake driftwood to hide in/under and several plants. The substrate is aragonite sand.

I guess all my rambling is leading up to one question. Is a 29 gallon adequate for one DG and 2 F8's (assuming the F8's leave the DG alone)? Water parameters are not an issue, my PH is ~8.0 out of the tap and the aragonite/marine-salt keeps the tank around ~8.2; I'm diligent with weekly water changes, also. I think I already know the answer, most people will say 50g min. and a few might say 30g. min. But I doubt that will be based on experience. I would like to hear from anyone that has kept a DG in a 29g. tank. In the event it were to outgrow the 29g. how would I know it's outgrown it's current tank? I really don't want to stunt my fish, but I don't see anything larger than a 29g. in the near future.

I really like the fish, I'm just conflicted about it's adult size and it's small habitat.

EDIT:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=26603&p=285289&hil ... by#p285289

I kept 2 F8s & a DG in a 29g for many years. The CR are iffy--the puffers may eat them. They eventually ate all my BBGs & all my mollies. Others have had success.

Seems it might be feasible for a few years until I can get myself a bigger place and then a bigger tank. I guess if I have a problem I can always take him back to the LFS and let them re-home him, or better yet I could send him to a fellow forum member that could properly house him. I guess I always have options if things don't go well. I think color is a big indicator of their health (more so than other fish). At the LFS the fish was a silvery white color, so much so I doubted it was a dragon goby, and now that he's been acclimated to low-end brackish and is in a larger tank he is getting some violet color to his dorsal fin and has very noticeable gold stripes along his ribs.

EDIT:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26366&p=282954&hili ... by#p282954

IMO there is really no such thing as too much filtration,...however you need to consider the capabilities of your fish and the effect of the overall flow in the tank.

On my ABN pleco tank (20 gal) I have an Aquaclear 70 and a Fluval 305 but they thrive in the high flow tank.

On my brackish 20 gal for my F8, Dragon goby, and BB Gobys I have an Aquaclear 70 and a Fluval 205...because the gobys and the puffer do not appreciate any higher flow.

Just make sure that the tenants aren't being blown around or having to constantly swim to stay in place.

Seems like a 20 long or 29 seems to be the minimum these guys can live in, just not sure if it's suitable in the long term. I'm hoping it's a yes because I'm quite fond of the little oddball I now have living in my tank.

Worth saying my previous setup included a Red Tail Black Shark that was healthy, active, ate well, survived the heater malfunction that killed everything else and then lived on another ~2 years. I had him for ~5 years and he was purchased as a "large" RTBS and was a bit over 3" when I got him. So I'd say he lived about 8 years, the norm for a RTBS (especially since he endured ~24 hours of ~95°+ temps once). Overall I had a good experience with my RTBS in a 29 even though 95% of information on the web claimed a 55 was minimum. I'd also like to add that well before his demise he was a good 5"+, so his growth was not stunted either.

[Pufferpunk]

I think the longer footprint of the 30g is better but mine lasted about 10 years in the 29g. There may be some species of DGs that grow larger than mine. He loved live blackworms & algae wafers.

[J-P]

Just to clarify on Blane's statement,

You certainly can add as much filtration as you want, it is the flow rate that is important. You can't over filter but you can over flow

Up sizing your filter is increases the filtration AND flow. The hard part is finding the proper filtration level WITH the adequate flow rate.

[RTR]

Huge +1 to J-P's comments on filtration and flow.

Personally I would never house a Dragon Goby in a 29 - I consider it too small a footprint, and despite PP's success with hers, I suspect it would have grown better in a 33xl at least and better a 40-long or larger, without the F-8.

I also suspect that the 1.003-1.005 I suggest for F-8s may be too light for DGs. I would take them up to ~1.012-1.015 - which is also the other side of the nitrification bacterial change-over to SW forms.

[P4radigm]

I think I may return him back to the LFS when I go to pick up my F8's. After having him for a day now I honestly can't say he does a whole lot for the tank (he dug a few burrows and chills out behind his driftwood when the lights are on). I'm also afraid of the fin nipping that privacy will occur with the F8's.

Any suggestions for interesting tankmates for F8's (other than BBG's)?

[sevenyearnight]

Honestly, Figure 8 puffers are more than interesting enough on their own.

[My HD PVR]

mollys.... a knight goby..

[P4radigm]

I think my original plan of 2 F8's and 5 BBGs will work great. I'm going to call my LFS sometime after Thursday to see if they got the two F8s in stock and I'll ask them if they'll take the Dragon Goby back. I'm sure they'll take 'im back, just not sure if I'll get any cash back or possibly an exchange. I may try a Knight Goby and/or a few mollies to add a little color. Not sure how long the tankmates will last, but if it becomes a problem I could rehouse the mollies/BBGs to a 10 gallon tank.

Thoughts on such a setup?

2 Figure 8 Puffers
5 Bumble Bee Gobies
1 Knight Goby

I think that would make for a nice stock list, a bit heavy but not overstocked in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock list got thinner after the F8 got settled in though, unfortunately.

[sevenyearnight]

I'm afraid your assessment of "not overstocked" is incorrect.
That stock list would be more appropriate for a 75 gallon.

[RTR]

If you mount a cut approximately in half lengthwise PVC pipe, with 45-degree angles at each end, the DG will stay visible 24/7 provided that the face of the tank does not get sun. Th cut was closer to 2/3 and i/3 to give the fish more room. It does work. I think that I used 2" ID PVC and the 45 angles had to mail-order as I could not get any locally way back then, But it was worth it. The tank room is not that bright. I put a black poster-board taped over the tunnel at first and latr removed it. Periodically I would have to vacuum out thge pipe while the fish was out.

I did not keep that set-up long term , as I wanted to do a bigger tank with more fish and never got around to that, but for a few years it was cool.

[Pufferpunk]

Knight gobies will eat anything they can fit into their large mouth--this includes BBGs. A pair of knights can be very entertaining!

[P4radigm]

If you mount a cut approximately in half lengthwise PVC pipe, with 45-degree angles at each end, the DG will stay visible 24/7 provided that the face of the tank does not get sun. Th cut was closer to 2/3 and i/3 to give the fish more room. It does work. I think that I used 2" ID PVC and the 45 angles had to mail-order as I could not get any locally way back then, But it was worth it. The tank room is not that bright. I put a black poster-board taped over the tunnel at first and latr removed it. Periodically I would have to vacuum out thge pipe while the fish was out.

I did not keep that set-up long term , as I wanted to do a bigger tank with more fish and never got around to that, but for a few years it was cool.

It seems like a great idea to keep him visible but I think you have already helped me determine that a DG is not appropriate for a 29 gallon.

So per your advice:

2 F8's
2 Knight Gobies
Perhaps a breeding trio of mollies? Or is that too much and/or would tempt the puffers a bit too much with fins?

[sevenyearnight]

They might eat them, definitely eat the young, and I believe mollies aren't a good diet for them. High thiaminase and/or too fatty??

[P4radigm]

Okay then, 2 F8's, 2 Knight Gobies. That'll be it for the tank then. And as for the mollies not being good for them or not, I'd never purposely let any of my fish eat another (unless I were to get a true piscivore).

As for the puffers, don't worry. I already have a dozen small ramshorn snails in a 10 gallon and I think I've spotted an egg sack, possibly two. I'll be getting ghost shrimp to go in the same tank, although I doubt they will be self-sufficent. My salinity in the 29 is now 1.004, I'll take it up to 1.006 with the next waterchange after I get the puffers. Even with a little excess food on the bottom for the Dragon Goby my tank appears to have been well cycled (fishlessly) as ammonia and nitrite are holding at 0, nitrate is climbing slowly.

EDIT:

If sufficient caves and hiding areas are provided, would it be possible to push the number of Knight Gobies up to 3 or 4?

[Pufferpunk]

Stick with the 4 fish. The gobies will probably breed if you get a pair.