!! I feel so sorry for the little guys, my Congo ate 2, are Dwarfs poisonous? Is it going to kill my Congo?AHH! My Congo ate some Dwarf puffers!
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Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
AHH! My Congo ate some Dwarf puffers!
I was out earlier, and my little brother thought my Dwarf puffers were feeders for my Congo! !! I feel so sorry for the little guys, my Congo ate 2, are Dwarfs poisonous? Is it going to kill my Congo?
!! I feel so sorry for the little guys, my Congo ate 2, are Dwarfs poisonous? Is it going to kill my Congo?-
The Fisherman
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 694
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:46 pm
- Location: West Michigan
- Contact:
x0rtrunks answered this question in the freshwater puffers forum:
i agree with x0rtrunks, i remember reading somwhere about puffers having some immunity to their own toxin, i beleive the dwarves would have had saxitoxin, and possibly tetraodoxin, sometimes domesticated puffers lose their tetraodoxin, but whether they can regenerate it is unknown.
as x0rtrunks already said, monitor your congo carefully. i hope he does allright for you.
i agree with x0rtrunks, i remember reading somwhere about puffers having some immunity to their own toxin, i beleive the dwarves would have had saxitoxin, and possibly tetraodoxin, sometimes domesticated puffers lose their tetraodoxin, but whether they can regenerate it is unknown.
as x0rtrunks already said, monitor your congo carefully. i hope he does allright for you.
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The Fisherman
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 694
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:46 pm
- Location: West Michigan
- Contact:
not nescesarily, not all DPs are captive bred, and the thought has been brought up that if the toxic shell fish generate their own toxin, why cant the puffers? if the puffers can consume the toxic shellfish , they must be immune to tetraodoxin, but im not sure if theyre immune to saxitoxin.perek wrote:Captive bred pufferfish are not poisonous because pufferfish get their ability to produce the toxin from the toxic shellfish they consume in the wild.
So no, they are not poisonous
i wasnt aware that consuming shellfish was the only way puffers produce their toxin.
im sure someone like RTR will be able to clarify.
Dwarfs are a totally different phylum(?) they are not a member of the tetrodons I am not sure if they have any toxin due to their orgin of india.The Fisherman wrote:not nescesarily, not all DPs are captive bred, and the thought has been brought up that if the toxic shell fish generate their own toxin, why cant the puffers? if the puffers can consume the toxic shellfish , they must be immune to tetraodoxin, but im not sure if theyre immune to saxitoxin.perek wrote:Captive bred pufferfish are not poisonous because pufferfish get their ability to produce the toxin from the toxic shellfish they consume in the wild.
So no, they are not poisonous
i wasnt aware that consuming shellfish was the only way puffers produce their toxin.
im sure someone like RTR will be able to clarify.
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RTR
- Mentor
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- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
DPs are in a different genus (Carinotetraodon), not in a different family or phyllum. They are Tetraodontidae just as are Tetrtraodon, Colomesus, Auriglobus and all the other multiple genera in the family. All share similar architecture and the use of the toxins.
The toxins used by the family are likely from bacteria or algae or both, the shellfish get them from the original producers or carry those producers on their shells, or in their mantle.
No pathway for producing the toxins gave been found in puffers, and lots of folk have tried. Nor have the special tissues or organs been found that would be needed to host the bacteria in the fish.
Puffers are immune to their toxin.
Blue-ringed octopus uses the same toxin, as do some salamanders.
Wild caught DPs are expensive, that price has not come down, in fact it seems to have gone up due to scarcity of folks willing to pay the price.
The toxins used by the family are likely from bacteria or algae or both, the shellfish get them from the original producers or carry those producers on their shells, or in their mantle.
No pathway for producing the toxins gave been found in puffers, and lots of folk have tried. Nor have the special tissues or organs been found that would be needed to host the bacteria in the fish.
Puffers are immune to their toxin.
Blue-ringed octopus uses the same toxin, as do some salamanders.
Wild caught DPs are expensive, that price has not come down, in fact it seems to have gone up due to scarcity of folks willing to pay the price.
Where's the fish? - Neptune
Thanks for clarrifying. I dont claim to be a biolgy majorRTR wrote:DPs are in a different genus (Carinotetraodon), not in a different family or phyllum. They are Tetraodontidae just as are Tetrtraodon, Colomesus, Auriglobus and all the other multiple genera in the family. All share similar architecture and the use of the toxins.
The toxins used by the family are likely from bacteria or algae or both, the shellfish get them from the original producers or carry those producers on their shells, or in their mantle.
No pathway for producing the toxins gave been found in puffers, and lots of folk have tried. Nor have the special tissues or organs been found that would be needed to host the bacteria in the fish.
Puffers are immune to their toxin.
Blue-ringed octopus uses the same toxin, as do some salamanders.
Wild caught DPs are expensive, that price has not come down, in fact it seems to have gone up due to scarcity of folks willing to pay the price.
On an off topic note my local petsmart got 10 of those little guys in and man I almost bought 5 of them for my 20l tank.
