Deep Sand Bed On a Brackish tank

[Peregrine]

I thought it was an interesting idea brought up in mantisman856's post
" Moving Up To A 55g Brackish Tank" in the Brackish Puffer section
If a deep DSB was used in a brackish tank, would the anaerobic bacteria break down nitrate?
and if there are no burrowing/sand shifting animals present, and only surface vacuuming, could it be used safely (avoiding the release of H2S pockets)

There is a strong consensus about either not using sand, or regular stirring of sand beds, to avoid H2S build up, and accidental release, but what is the risk/reward if the sand-bed remains undisturbed?

Does any one use DSB on their marine tanks? and would the same risks not hold true? How would a DSB on a marine tank differ?

I am curious, both as a possible application in my brackish tank, as well as future use in a Marine tank I hope to start eventually (soon hopefully)
but know very little of the pro and cons of such a practice

Any one willing to enlighten me (or flame me)

[RTR]

I don't do marine anymore, so cannot answer that part.

I have done a bit of work on plenums in FW, and they do function just fine without the SW range of diggers. I don't care for the DSB concept as much so did not and would not try it.

[londonloco]

OK, I'll try to answer this post, but I am by no means an expert on DSB. If your really interested, go to reefcentral.com and search for DSB. There is a constant, often annoying, debate on reefcentral, DSB's vs BB (Deep Sand Bed vs. Barebottom tanks).

IN MY REEF: I have a DSB. Live sand provides many "critters" to stir up your sand bed..ie..bristle worms, peanut worms etc... I've also have a 6" yellow cucumber (and growing), and 20 or so snails that live, for the most part, in the sandbed stirring it up. I also have 3 queen and fighting conches, that bury themselves, sometimes for weeks on end, stirring up the sand bed. These creatures stir the sand UNDER the bed. Various hermit crabs, snails, shrimp and some of my fish keep the surface sand clean and stirred. My sand is not as pristine white as it was 13 months ago when I set this reef up. Occasionally I will stir the very top of the bed for apperance purposes. When I do a water change, I take the water from 1/2 down the tank. I NEVER vacuum the sand bed. So, you see, in a marine tank, the DSB is not UNDISTURBED...it is constantly being "sifted" by varioius creatures.

I don't know if using a DSB in a brackish tank will allow anaerobic bacteria to break down nitrates. I can tell you in my reef tank, I have had NO detectable nitrates in over a year. I'm not sure if the DSB has something to do with that, or my kick buttocks protein skimmer. Or the fact I do 20 gallon water changes every week.

I'm a firm believer that our hobby has too many variables tank by tank to give almost any difinitive answer. It all depends..on tank size, source water, equipment, lighting, inhabitants...etc...

Hope this helps....Loco

[Peregrine]

I will have to research more on the DSB, as my ignorance is complete( and my salt water journey has only started), but I like the idea of natural ecosystem, in a artificial environment, as long as it can be done with out risk to the inhabitants...

[londonloco]

Let me give you some references to start with. IMO, the best book for beginners is Bob Fenners' Conscientious Marine Aquarist. This is a great starter book. If you want to go reef, and believe me, you will after your read his book, The Reef Aquarium series by Julian Sprung and Delbeek. I have Vol 1&2, waiting for the price to come down on Vol3. The best coral book I found is Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman. It is essential if your going to keep corals. Now for fish identification a great book is "A PocketExpert Guide Marine Fishes by Scott Michael". I made the mistake of buying 2 invertebrate books. IMO, total waste of money. Michael puts one out also, but I wouldn't buy it. There is enough on web to identify any hitchhikers you might get. I love my reef. But they are 10x more work than any of my freshwater tanks.

Other quick advice, get a reef ready tank, an over sized sump, plan to add a refuguim, only metal Halide lighting in a reef (don't let anyone talk you out of MH's, I'd guarantee you you'll eventually upgrade) and the largest Protein Skimmer your can afford and house.

Hope this helps...Loni

[Peregrine]

1)Got-it (reading it)
2)getting it in the mail (should arrive this week)
Re: the reef aquarium series..do they build on one another, or does volume 3 have everything 1-2 have, just more current?
3) trying to get it on eBay cheaper (Aquarium Corals)
--got a good deal on the invertebrate book, and a couple others marine aquarium books on EBay, so will read them, and fit them in to the paradigm, some way.
--honestly, the technical stuff I get...its the physical set up of tank-to-sump-with fuge, skimmer, and the plumbing that the books seem to gloss over..and that is more confusing to me..schematics i have seen at reef central, wwm, and others make sense from someones point of view..unfortunately not mine..(kinda funny as I worked my way through university as an industrial carpenter, can read a blueprint, just not an aquarist's rendition of one )
but I have only gathering info for a couple months so I am sure it will "click" once I immerse myself in the data, figure out the configuration I want, and start buying components

[londonloco]

It's easy. It really is. Do you plan on hard plumbing or using soft tube? My set up is really simple. Surface water runs down overflow box, down to sump. Protein skimmer is in first compartment of sump. Protein Skims the water and dumps water right back into that compartment. Sump has a middle small compartment that filters w/just a sponge. Water flows into that compartment, then flows thru "baffles" which are really just pieces of acrylic alternated, into third compartment. In the third component I have a MAGDRIVE pump, that pumps water back up to tank. I guess when you describe it, it sounds confusing. I didn't hard plumb, I used soft tubing. I like it because it's not permanent. One thing we haven't done is put in any cut off valves. Most will say very dangerous. But if were to I flood, I flood less than 10 gallons. Haven't flooded yet (watch, it'll happen tomorrow).

I just added a fuge. It's taken me almost a year to decide what fuge setup I wanted. And basically, I wanted something to harbor pods, and grow some macroalgae. After pricing them..custom fuges run 300-400$ (I had a custom sump built, but I'd never do that again, long story) I built one, out of a 9$ Rubbermaid bin. I have a very small pump that was left over from my reptile days pumping water SLOWLY from the third compartment of my sump up into the fuge...a rubber hose basically. Hubby drilled a hole in Rubbermaid bin, and gravity takes the water back down. It's filled w/a 11$ layer of walt smiths Fiji mud, about 2" of live sand and I have about 15lbs of live rock in there. The live sand and live rock have been in a 12 G eclipse for a year, so it was seeded w/pods already. I have a black spiny urchin that lives in there. I'm deciding weather or not to put it in the main tank. But it's so eerie looking...and I'm not sure what it would do to my rock work. ANYWAY... It works great! And after only a week, I can see more pods on my glass and sand at night. I added some fresh pods today, and if I can ever get out of this office, I will add some macro algae from my LFS.

To answer your questions, Sprungs books are very technical. Vol 1 covers a lot of the basic stuff, but way more technical than Fenners. It also has several chapters on corals and clams, algae, diseases, and about 100 pages on stony corals. Vol 2 basically deals with soft corals. I just bought Eberts book on puffers. Will get to Vol 3 next month.

Um, one word of caution, well, maybe 2. This reefing hobby is very very expensive. I can't express that enough. Once you get hooked, it's hard to turn away. But..saying that. Don't make the same mistake I did. MY first attempt at a reef was 6 years ago, and for personal reasons, gave myself a 4 yr break from all my tanks (I also had 14 tanks filled with African Cichlids and there fry). In February 2005, I set up another reef. And within 3 months, I had replaced my lighting, protein skimmer and filtration. Three months after that, I upgraded to the 120 gallon. I almost went to a 180, and glad I didn't. Instead I set up a 72g discus, and now a 30g soon to be puffer and a 12g shell dweller. That's it, not another tank in this house...I swear....I mean it....What I'm trying to say is get the best and biggest you can afford from the beginning. And read, read, read. And when you think your ready, read more.

Well, hope I helped a little. If you get stuck, email me...my email is in my profile...Loco

[Phaedrus]

I suggest that whenever someone wants to type 'reef' they simply type '$$$$' instead. It would really advertise more correctly what you're talking about.

[londonloco]

Wisely said. And so $$$$$$ true....