I Want To Get Some Figure Eights

[bertie 83]

I am also unsure about substrate as my fahaka seems more active and personable with light gravel

[CyberBob]

:O You're, like, a puffer god!
Sorry for not mentioning you. I'm usually really stubborn when I want something until I break and realize that there's no way to get it.

Some responses in order:
1. Pleco it is . I'm really just planning to have the puffers, so as long as it's just big enough for them to be in, a celebration is in order. Are there any plecos from here that would do well?
2. I'll go with plastic. Cheaper, easier, smaller.
3. I'll stick with the pleco, then .
4. I want my puffer to love me, so I guess I'll get live sand. (I have 2 grand to spend, so I don't mind if stuff gets a bit pricey)
5. And the standard rules are...
6. I'm buying online, this website in particular. I wouldn't dare buy from one of those death traps called LFS's.
7. As a complete contradiction to the above statement, I have a Petco nearby that gives me dozens of snails for a dollar. Would those work? They're very small, look like the right size.
8. This is what confused me. How would I start off with the whole salt thing? Since 1.002 is saltwater, does that mean that a smaller number means more salt? What do the numbers stand for? And lastly, would the water likely start off at 1? I can't imagine getting it to 1.012 from 0.

the bushynose is the same as bristlenose. but, I usually buy them for about $5 locally.
plastic is easier
it's contraversial to keep a pleco in any salt, but it can be done.
2 grand? yikes... get the 300g tank full setup
I didn't mean to say live sand, just sand.
standard rules ... here's a good guide:
http://www.pufferlist.com/article-libra ... ffer-fish/
I actually like the LFS, just don't like all the big chains.
not sure which type of snail they have, but most likely your puffer would eat them.
I would recommend ramshorns or pond snails though. MTS when the F8 grows up, but not as a baby.
also, the pufer eats snails that are about the size of it's eye. That's why most of us just breed them ourselves.
if you throw in a bigger snail, it might eat it, might not. but, it will kill it and then your water gets dirty if it isn't eaten.
the puffer willlearn on it'sown

sorry to confuse ya. stupid typos.
freshwater is a 1.000. (no salt)
brakish is 1.001 - 1.020 (1.015 usually)
salt is 1.020+
brine is 1.03 (for hatching brine shrimp)
you will need a hydrometer. it will basically measure the buoancy of the water, which tells you the salt level.
a refractometer is more accurate though. of course, it costs about $30 and the hydrometer can be $3 - $15
you raise the salt level by slowly adding more salt every week with your water changes.
youput water in a bucket, addmarine salt to it until you reach your desired salt level.
let that sit overnight with an airpump or powerhead, then replace the dirty water with your solution.
so, you would want to raise the salt level by .002 every week until you reach your desired level.
you start at 1.000 (fresh)
the nest week, you have 1.002 after a water change, the next week, 1.004, then 1.005.
I'd stop at 1.003 if you plan to keep a pleco though.
Once you have added the salt, it is always there. it doesn't evaporate with your water.
you will still want to monitor the salt level when you do water changes, but it becomes very easy.
after a while, you automatically know how much salt to add to your bucket to keep it at the level you want.
look over that guide to brakish that i linked to, it should explain it in detail.

[bertie 83]

Whether you can or can't keep a plec in brackish water ( idont believe you can) it will be too much bio load on the tank let your f8s enjoy it on their own,

[RTR]

This may be considered a slam, or it mat just be simple fact:

CyberBob knows effectively nothing about keeping pufers and very little about keeping fish at all. Hi is unfortunately mis-informed and does appear not to understand anything about tank stocking, nor enough about tank operation to keep puffers successfully at all. His tanks are seriously mis-stocked and poorly managed. This is most unfortunate, but it is not at all rare on the Web. Many who know little or nothing about operating successful tanks feel free to offer information to those who know even less. That is in and of itself the greatest hazard on the Web, but a lesson which needs to be learned very early in you hobby efforts. Beware of poor and bad advice.

As I have more tank-years of operating F-8 tanks than anyone else here, I think I may be allowed to say that if you take that persons advice, your tank will be a disaster and a constant headache which will waste your time and money and guarantee poor to dead fish.

IME a 25 is too small for two F-8s. I would give the odds of about one chance in 10 as the best possible of that small a tank with that small a footprint supporting two F-8s for their normal captive lifespan (~15 years) with no other inhabitants nor any live plants, or odds of 0 if you add the other fish and set-up suggested. I have never kept any F-8 with a conspecific over any significant time span in a tank less than 30 gallons and better in a 33 XL (48 x 13" footprint). Even at that, they still do not both reach the average lifespan cited before - one always dies much earlier than would be expected for a well-maintained singleton, or for a singleton w/BBG is a larger tanks (20-long, 30-long, or 33XL). For these and water management reasons I do not suggest that novices attempt co-housing puffers at all in other large and under-crowded tanks , even with visual complexity of a high order and with large footprints. Minimum tank sizes are minimum, period - no other fish at all, and likely no visible inverts either.

Your choice on whose advice you elect to take. But if you take CyberBob's advice, the rest of us will be unable to help you correct the initial set-up errors. The fish's natures will do that fairly soon in any case.

It is unfortunate that a very good site has to waste so much time contradicting a troll. ):

[Pufferpunk]

I stopped reading Cyber's posts after the mixing FW & BW fish part. No plecos or otos or any other strictly FW fish, in BW, period!!!

[sevenyearnight]

We are here to give the best advice possible, and I whole heartedly have to disagree with the keeping freshwater fish with any amount of salt. This is wrong for many reasons, I'm sure RTR would more elaborately explain why, but simply it's unnecessary and can be harmful. Why do something unnecessary that could harm your fish? Petco's fish husbandry is *not* a great point to support the argument. Major chains and most LFS's are infamous for giving bad, incomplete and sometimes fatal advice. We are not here to support this practice, but to help people with the most accurate and beneficial information possible.
Many freshwater fish, with the exception of livebearers and other hard water fish, come from water in the wild that has very fresh, low TDS, acidic, soft water. It's not just as simple as it being hard on the kidneys, but the fact that you acknowledge that it could do this, at least, and still advocate adding salt to soft/freshwater fish species tanks, doesn't make sense.

[Pufferpunk]

Never mind the fact that we have posted the absolute minimum tank sizes on the Pufferpedia. That means, no tank mates added! That also refers to tanks with a normal -long footprint. What are the measurements of the 25g?

[sevenyearnight]

Ahh I see I personally wouldn't put two in there as it sounded a bit small lol. Sorry sevenyear didn't catch what you were trying to say

Yeah, I said "your puffer", I didn't realize 2 were suggested even, I kind of skimmed over that post with a multitude of face/palms, but I did just read it fully. Mega epic face/palm.

[bertie 83]

Sevenyear i thought it must have been an oversight, so I ended with questionmarks lol. Was very painful to read and I only know the basics on f8 care lol

[sevenyearnight]

Also, this has already been addressed many times, do not feed puffers MTS, malaysian trumpet snails, their shells are too hard and it can break the puffer's teeth. Please stop suggesting this.

[BurntSnow]

Why does this always happen to me?
Anyways, if it's absolutely necessary, I'll only get a "singleton" (if that means single puffer), but I really think they'd be fine as the only main fish in a 25 gallon tank. I read that the minimum was 10 gallons each and I have 25. Yes, I have enough to buy a bigger tank, but there's absolutely no space. The biggest thing that can fit is a 25 gal. I don't know the dimensions because I did not purchase it yet, so I can buy whatever will be best for the puffers. I'm not an impulse buyer, I usually try to do my research, but the only reason I'm here is because every website expects me to be an expert who knows what they're talking about. I'm going to go with fake plants, and white aragonite sand (unless there's something I should know about that). I suspected CyberBob didn't really know what he was talking about, good to know that that's cleared up. Next step, what should I get as an algae eater? Are there any brackish corys? How many bumblebee gobies can I put in? And lastly (please CyberBob, don't answer this or any other question), what else should I know before getting the f8s?

Oh, and in reply to the above post, I know. And the snails at the LFS are not MTS, but thanks for the information anyways.

[Nuclear_Glitter]

You may have heard 10 for each additional is okay but it's not. Puffers create a huge bioload like you wouldn't believe. 15 for each is the BARE minimum and as RTR said even 30 isn't the best for 2.

My question is if you don't know the dimensions of the tank how do you know a 25 will fit in your house?

You keep saying there's no space but you can't move anything or get rid of something? Like an unneeded shelf or chair or something to fit a bigger tank?

As far as what you're going to need here's a short list:

Tank, Filter (extra is better. You need at least a 10X flow rate but puffers need as much as possible), heater, Marine salt mix, a hydrometer or a refractometer, the substrate, loads of decor (Puffers get bored easily), a liquid water testing kit (this is a must, not an exception), Prime water conditioner, suitable lighting, and this is the bare list.

Remember you MUST cycle the tank fully before getting the figure 8. Don't add fish to cycle the tank to cycle it, read this: library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/

You don't need an algea eater if you keep your tank right. Don't keep your lights on too long, don't let your levels get bad, do 50% water changes weekly, things like that.

I really don't recommend adding anything else with the figure 8 because even if he's nice to the tankmates at first as he matures there's a high risk he will kill them or at least stress them out by always nipping their fins.

As far as anything else you need to know just look around the site and visit the library often, there's tons to learn there.

[bertie 83]

A single puffer and a couple of bbg's would be perfect . Best bet measure your space and get the biggest footprint tank you can ( swimming room is very important) as for brackish algae eaters I am not sure, but with good maintenance and no direct sunlight you shouldn't have too much trouble with algae. This forum is the best way to find the correct path, sometimes you need to sift through the info given but the pro's will always get in to eradicate the b/s, I have years of unguided fishkeeping experience, but since joining realised how little i knew. You got the bonus of starting out with these guys giving all the help they can. Good luck with your soon to have little puffer friend. Oh and have you read the post in the library on fishless cycling? If not it will help you set up right

[Pufferpunk]

If you can fit a 25g, I'm sure you can fit a 30g, then you'll have no problem keeping 2 F8s.

[BurntSnow]

Nuclear_Glitter, I can't. I wish I could get rid of a chair, if there was one. Anyways, thanks for the info! I did a quick measurement of the area that the tank will be on and it is roughly 31 inches long, and 7 1/2 inches wide. Might be an inch or two off.

bertie 83, would there be anything else I could put in the tank that's not a BBG? Also, what is a footprint tank? I feel very lucky to have found this site early, though.

Pufferpunk, I think I MIGHT be able to. Dimensions are, "...roughly 31 inches long, and 7 1/2 inches wide. Might be an inch or two off..."

Did I forget to mention that they will arrive an inch and a half in size? At least, from the website I'm buying them from. I can't find a website that bigger ones in stock, and there aren't any LFSs that sell or are planning to get f8s.