I Could Use Some Feeding Advice for DPs ...

[CyberBob]

The 1"/g rule is only good for slim, 1-2" fish like neon tetras--nothing else--especially larger-massed/high waste producing fish like puffers. Could you imagine a 10" Oscar in a 10g tank?

NO3 shows a lil, more after an ammonia spike

When is this?

if I cut the pleco in half.

Please don't cut your pleco in half! He might not like it.

LOL, that poor Oscar. I see your point. I do try to gauge it based on the size of the tank and fish. For example, a for a 40g tank, I might use the 1" rule for a 5" fish, but not a 24" fish. whereas in a 10g i wouldn't use the 1" rule for anything over 3".

I'm not sure what you're asking about the NO3? I have a lil more after an ammonia spike.
I looked closely at the bottles by the way, you were right ... I had them switched NO3 = nitrates NO2 = nitrites.
I thought it was the other way around for some reason. 1 silly letter, but that could really mess things up.

well, ok if you insist ... I will keep the pleco as a whole.

[CyberBob]

I personally would not even pack tetras that tightly it is asking for trouble, in my tetra tank they have triple that space. Why does this 1" rule keep popping up it's long been proved it's rubbish

IMO, it's because the LFS still uses it.
I just wish I could come up with a better formula to determine a good ratio. Got One?

[bertie 83]

Yea 1" per 3 or more gall for small low waste fish and all mine live way past life expectancy , just what I do some peops like rammed tanks I like mine quite empty

[CyberBob]

Yea 1" per 3 or more gall for small low waste fish and all mine live way past life expectancy , just what I do some peops like rammed tanks I like mine quite empty

I can see the appeal there also. less maintenace and if it's a puff better chance it'll form a relationship with you. Oscar's are pretty smart too though

[borgey424]

In my opinion you really have to figure out something to do with all those fish. You're tanks are EXTREMELY overstocked IMO. You should never be showing Nitrite by the way. If not your tank is not cycled and that's a serious issue as PufferPunk said earlier. Please rethink what you are doing here. DO IT FOR YOUR FISHIES!

I'm not sure which tank you are referring to. When I use the 1g per 1" method, my math says I'm understocked ... barely. I certainly don't want to have any tank overstocked. But, I would like the tanks to be full and healthy. I don't plan to have a 40g tank for 1 molly.

• I'm gonna add this up and see where I might have gone wrong.
  I'm not trying to challenge anyone by any means.
  I value your advice as long as that's what it is and not just flaming.
  I want all my fish to be happy & healthy above all else.
  So, if you have suggestions, please feel free to let me know.
  I'm also using the full adult size of each fish.

I'm doing this math for myself also, just to be sure:

30g Puffer Tank

• 6 DPs = 6"
  10x1" neons = 10"
  Bristlenose = 4"

That's a total of 20" in a 30g tank, or 18" if I take into consideration:
I've always been told that plecos only count as half by just about every LFS.
I did take into consideration that they are puffers also.
Each DP has 5g. (30g / 6 DPs = 5g each). That's better then the standard rule of 5g for the 1st and 3g for each additional.
So, I can only assume nobody thinks this tank is overstocked?

10g Betta Tank

• Betta = 2"
  3x2" Mollies = 6"
  Bristlenose = 4"
  Mystery Snail, Rams & Trumpets =??

That's a total of 12" of fish in a 10g, or 10" if I consider:
I've always been told that plecos only count as half by just about every LFS.
I have no idea what kind of space I should take into consideration for snails.
But, I know it's miniscule. One source told me that 100 snails = 1" of fish.
Ok, this one might be at it's max. If needed, I could always move the mollies out and that should balance it out.

40g Community Tank

• Angel = 5"
  RedTail Shark = 5"
  Gourami = 5"
  10x1" Neons= 10"
  5x2" Mollies = 10"
  Bristlenose = 4"
  Apple Snail, Rams & Trumpets = ??

That's a total of 39" or 37" if I cut the pleco in half.
I'd say this one is at it's max, but not overstocked.

10g Breeder Tank

• 3x2" Cories = 6"
  Clown Pleco = 3"
  Mystery Snail, Ghost Shrimp, Rams & Trumpets =??

That's a total of 9" or 5" if I take into consideration that:
The cories are closer to 1" and are full grown, but most sites say 1.5" - 2" for cories.
I have 2 small 1" females (albino & emerald) and a 1.5" male (skunk).
The clown Pleco can get to 4" but usually doesn't go past 3". From my experience, it's more like 2.5", unless you have a big bull. Too young to tell.
Again, this doesn't seem overstocked to me. But, it could be at it's max.

I was not by any means trying to flame. I am sorry if it came across that way but I was just being honest. I have been on this site for a while now (forgot my real accounts password and had to make a new one) and this does unfortunately happen a lot . The 1" per 1 gallon rule is without a doubt complete trash. Like I said earlier if you're that concerned about your fishes living a long healthy life then you'll need to help them out with the overstocking. Think about it, would you want to swim in your own waste all day? Most likely not.... Just some food for thought.


P.S. your DPs in your avatar are absolutely awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bertie 83]

By Understocking I dont do less maintenance I do as much as I can therefore getting better water quality also making my fish happier

[Pufferpunk]

Because LFS still want to sell as many fish as they can.

[CyberBob]

I was not by any means trying to flame. I am sorry if it came across that way but I was just being honest. I have been on this site for a while now (forgot my real accounts password and had to make a new one) and this does unfortunately happen a lot . The 1" per 1 gallon rule is without a doubt complete trash. Like I said earlier if you're that concerned about your fishes living a long healthy life then you'll need to help them out with the overstocking. Think about it, would you want to swim in your own waste all day? Most likely not.... Just some food for thought.

P.S. your DPs in your avatar are absolutely awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't mind others having a different opinion then myself. I just want them to have something to back it up. I Love a Good Debate!
When I hear "don't do this" but it isn't followed by "i suggest you do this to fix it" or at least "this is why it's wrong", I consider that flaming.
You're just saying I'm wrong with no basis and offering no help.

I didn't mean to imply that you were flaming.
I always appreciate honesty I do agree that the 1" rule doesn't always work ...
I only use it as a basis and then add or subtract the different variables from there.
It's the best method I have come up with so far.

I am truly curious which tanks(s) you think are overstocked.
Please feel free to read through the list of all my tanks and tell me which ones are too full and why you think so.

And yes ... that was actually an accidental photo. I was trying to catch my bristlenose cat.
I wanted to show someone what a big bull looks like with the full on mustache compared to a smaller female with hardly any stubble.
The bull swam away just before I clicked and that is what I ended up with.
It was tooooo cute, had to make it my avatar. That's my smallest (possible male) with one of my large females. He rarely lets her out of his sight.
He doesn't have a brown line on his belly ... but I see a light brown marking that could become a keel later. My guess is he's just a pre-teen.
I'm 99( sure every other DP in the tank is a female, they are nearly full grown with fat white bellys. So, if he is a male ... he's a lucky lil guy ... he just got himself a small heram ... Me personally, I would prolly have to keel myself if I had 5 wives. I have 2 ex-wives and they nearly put me in the grave.

[bertie 83]

So in the puffertank the dps pretty much fill it then we add 10 tetras and a plec and 2 ottos plus any other critters which are present can u see where I am going with this, now these are just opinions but are from peops who care and would like to help. Now you said you suffer from ammonia spikes, I have not expirenced one of these before which further enforces my opinion that your tanks are too full. Any waste products are harmful to fish so they shouldn't be exposed. Now it's obvious you like your fish so why not get 1 more tank reshuffle and let them enjoy more space and cleaner water. I run six tanks at present and only have minimal in each and that's how I feel is best to keep them and they love me for it just a thought

[Pufferpunk]

It also surprises me that the puffers don't pick on your other fish.

[bertie 83]

From my experience keeping these little pitbulls it's only a matter of time and mass deaths follow but sometimes you can be lucky with them just 1 in a million

[borgey424]

By Understocking I dont do less maintenance I do as much as I can therefore getting better water quality also making my fish happier

+1

[borgey424]

I was not by any means trying to flame. I am sorry if it came across that way but I was just being honest. I have been on this site for a while now (forgot my real accounts password and had to make a new one) and this does unfortunately happen a lot . The 1" per 1 gallon rule is without a doubt complete trash. Like I said earlier if you're that concerned about your fishes living a long healthy life then you'll need to help them out with the overstocking. Think about it, would you want to swim in your own waste all day? Most likely not.... Just some food for thought.

P.S. your DPs in your avatar are absolutely awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't mind others having a different opinion then myself. I just want them to have something to back it up. I Love a Good Debate!
When I hear "don't do this" but it isn't followed by "i suggest you do this to fix it" or at least "this is why it's wrong", I consider that flaming.
You're just saying I'm wrong with no basis and offering no help.

I didn't mean to imply that you were flaming.
I always appreciate honesty I do agree that the 1" rule doesn't always work ...
I only use it as a basis and then add or subtract the different variables from there.
It's the best method I have come up with so far.

I am truly curious which tanks(s) you think are overstocked.
Please feel free to read through the list of all my tanks and tell me which ones are too full and why you think so.

And yes ... that was actually an accidental photo. I was trying to catch my bristlenose cat.
I wanted to show someone what a big bull looks like with the full on mustache compared to a smaller female with hardly any stubble.
The bull swam away just before I clicked and that is what I ended up with.
It was tooooo cute, had to make it my avatar. That's my smallest (possible male) with one of my large females. He rarely lets her out of his sight.
He doesn't have a brown line on his belly ... but I see a light brown marking that could become a keel later. My guess is he's just a pre-teen.
I'm 99( sure every other DP in the tank is a female, they are nearly full grown with fat white bellys. So, if he is a male ... he's a lucky lil guy ... he just got himself a small heram ... Me personally, I would prolly have to keel myself if I had 5 wives. I have 2 ex-wives and they nearly put me in the grave.

The 1" rule NEVER works. If I were you I would at least go with the 1" to every 3 gallons if you must have some sort of guideline to go by. But hey at the end of the day it is totally up to you since it's your fish. I personally have 4 DPs in a 30 gallon, a Figure 8 in a 40 gallon and that's pretty much MINIMUM I would go for those fish. If I had the room I would upgrade the tanks even bigger since I want my fish to have all the room they can. Just think about it that's all I am saying.

[Pufferpunk]

After having the electricity off for 11 hours here, I have to admit that the overstocked tanks really suffered (even with live plants). The understocked tanks did fine with little to no water movement.

[CyberBob]

So in the puffertank the dps pretty much fill it then we add 10 tetras and a plec and 2 ottos plus any other critters which are present can u see where I am going with this, now these are just opinions but are from peops who care and would like to help. Now you said you suffer from ammonia spikes, I have not expirenced one of these before which further enforces my opinion that your tanks are too full. Any waste products are harmful to fish so they shouldn't be exposed. Now it's obvious you like your fish so why not get 1 more tank reshuffle and let them enjoy more space and cleaner water. I run six tanks at present and only have minimal in each and that's how I feel is best to keep them and they love me for it just a thought

Well, I wouldn't say the 6 DPs fill it by any means ... They aren't even a full inch. If I use the 5g for the 1st and 3g for each extra ... a 30g should support 9 DPs. (Which is what I started with). But, I decided it was too crowded with too many males. They started puberty, I thought they were gals :-\ So, I gave 4 males up for adoption and kept my smallest male with 5 females. He tries to be a bully, but they put him in his place when he needs it.

Anyways, I am using 1DP = 5g. That leaves me some wiggle room for cleaners. The neans are really just there for some movement. The DPs tend to sleep all day (like their owner). So far, they have completely left the black neons alone ... not so for blue neons though.

As for the ammonia spike .. never had one in my puff tank, only in my breeder tank and rarely in my betta tank. Usually after a molly birthing.
Community tank gets a lot of algae, but that's the only problem there. I have upgraded the 10g breeder tank to an aqueon 30 filter.
2 Days ago, it was very murky (I expected it with the snails). I didn't mind it being cloudy because the levels were still fine.
I keep calling it a breeder tank, but really it's where I breed feeder snails and shrimp for the other tanks. Would that be called a feeder tank?
I keep the cats in there cause they don't mind murky water and clean up leftovers.
But after only 2 days with the 30, the water is crystal clear.
Of course, now I have snails in all my tanks because a couple snuck into my betta tank and community tank.
I don't mind too much, I just pull snails from those tanks 1st.

It also surprises me that the puffers don't pick on your other fish.

It surpirses me a lil too. It's got to be the black coloring. They sorta look like a small oto. sorta ... well, maybe to the DPs

From my experience keeping these little pitbulls it's only a matter of time and mass deaths follow but sometimes you can be lucky with them just 1 in a million

I don't expect them to ignore the neons forever. I bought them 10\$1 so that in the event they did get eaten, they were considered feeder fish for the puffs. They are swimming food reserves.

[quote="borgey424]The 1" rule NEVER works. If I were you I would at least go with the 1" to every 3 gallons if you must have some sort of guideline to go by. But hey at the end of the day it is totally up to you since it's your fish. I personally have 4 DPs in a 30 gallon, a Figure 8 in a 40 gallon and that's pretty much MINIMUM I would go for those fish. If I had the room I would upgrade the tanks even bigger since I want my fish to have all the room they can. Just think about it that's all I am saying.[/quote]My bedroom is full of tanks or else I would try to get a bigger tank.I have 2 walls of tanks, guinea pig corner, my bed, tv and computer desk ... no room for anything else hehe.

After having the electricity off for 11 hours here, I have to admit that the overstocked tanks really suffered (even with live plants). The understocked tanks did fine with little to no water movement.

Yikes! I hope you have battery backups. I just bought a 3 pack from Foster&Smith for $13 I do also use a battery backup (UPS). It's mainly for the computer, but I have it set to shutoff if running on batteries. So, why not plug the air pump in and let it run for 18+ hours. It's a must living in Florida. I only have one airpump by the way ... but it is big, with 4 nozzles and overall air adjustment. I also have my filters plugged into a small UPS, but it only last a couple hours.